Ys VII PC port announced for summer release

Discussion in 'Ys Series' started by Erpy, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Clessy

    Clessy Member

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    I've never been a huge frame rate guy. Stable and locked is all that matters. I mean OOT was 20fps. Anything above 24 thats locked with some internal blending between frames is great to me. Obviously the higher the frame rate limit the better but its never been a make or break thing to me.
     
  2. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad XSEED admin

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    I'm generally the same way, but trust me: it makes a big difference here. It's like a whole new game at 60fps.

    -Tom
     
  3. Battlechili

    Battlechili Member

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    The 2D art assets look better than they would in PPSSPP at least.
     
  4. Omage_X

    Omage_X Active Member

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    Oh that ? believe it or not I was trying to find you guys programmers that could port PC stuff onto PS4 but then I realised the Website I was linking had people who were only good a developing games so I deleted the post because I was embarrassed lol I'm still trying to find and ask people I know on twitter but I realised even if I did find someone who could help you the Crossbell games might be still too much work.
     
  5. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad XSEED admin

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    Oh, heh. Well, the effort is certainly appreciated, but is also not necessary, as we have our own avenues to explore to that end.

    We certainly wouldn't say no to a good referral, though.

    -Tom
     
    Omage_X likes this.
  6. Erpy

    Erpy Active Member

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    WAV-files in Cold Steel's port? Doesn't that mean your music folder's...like...between 500 and 800 MB large?

    I kind of assume it'll be possible to redefine your keys since that's one of the most basic features in any PC port, but is it possible to bind special moves directly (and possibly flash guard) to a single key? On PSP, the limited number of available buttons meant they had to go with the "hold one modifier button while pressing one of the 4 primary buttons"-setup. On a keyboard, you don't really have that limitation so I imagine the ability to bind specials to a key directly would be a welcome feature.
     
  7. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad XSEED admin

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    It's pretty big, yeah! But the files are completely lossless, so it's sort of a tradeoff.

    You know, that's a pretty good point. I don't think it's currently set up that way, but it might be possible! I'll look into it.

    -Tom
     
  8. Erpy

    Erpy Active Member

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    That'd be great. One rule of thumb when playing with keyboards is that you always want as few keys held down as possible, since some keyboards have trouble processing more than 3 keystrokes at the same time. That means that if you wanted to throw out a special move (L1-equivalent + key pressed) while walking diagonally (up or down + left or right pressed), some keyboards may not register the fourth key press and you'd have to let go of at least one directional key before the move could be used.

    And previous Ys games also had additional options for keyboards such as the ability to switch to specific magic types by using the 1-3 keys, which didn't exist as options on gamepads.
     
  9. Clessy

    Clessy Member

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    on the note of uncompressed wav files i have to just say ugh. Uncompressed music is one of the biggest waste of space ever. There are some pretty quality compressions out there that are virtually lossless and will cut that size down dramatically. Plus it seems rather useless given the source of the music was probably compressed in the first place. I doubt it can be changed but can the game just look for the name of the file but not its extension? That way if you want you can just replace them with whatever type of file you want. That way you can rely on your own codecs installed. Sloppy bloated file sizes has to be my biggest hate with modern gaming.
     
  10. zwabbit

    zwabbit Active Member

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    The game would need to have built in decoding for any alternate encoding that you want used. Just because you have other codecs installed doesn't mean the game is capable of making use of them.
     
  11. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad XSEED admin

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    It does bring up a good point that I'm not sure any of us considered, however. Since the initial download of a game is a one-time thing, and hard drive space isn't typically an issue for most gamers, the size of the game was never really taken into consideration -- but I just checked, and that bgm folder is indeed kind of... really big. Big enough that it was at least worth putting in an official feedback request to the programmer in charge here to see if the WAVs can be subbed out for a near-lossless compressed format such as Falcom's standard OGG without causing too much of a coding snafu.

    It may be too late for a change of this magnitude, but it's worth looking into, at least.

    Worst case scenario, though, the download will just take a wee bit longer for you guys than it would otherwise. I don't suspect it'll be a problem for most people, but Erpy and Clessy do raise a good point here, and it's certainly worth exploring possible alternatives, if nothing else.

    -Tom
     
  12. Cqef

    Cqef Member

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    Well, without trading in the WAV files for a lossy codec, I'd be fine with Flac files for the music. Keeping the lossless aspect, yet more convenient than WAV files due to their smaller size.
     
  13. soundersfan84

    soundersfan84 Member

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    Is it possible to change it to something else post release? I would think it would be hard at this point to change it to let say OGG or FLAC for example then do more additional testing to make sure it works when the game is getting close for release?
     
  14. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad XSEED admin

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    I'unno. The "bug" is in our database, though (listed as a feedback issue), so it's all in the programmer's hands now!

    -Tom
     
  15. strife.v1

    strife.v1 Member

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    At a time where game downloads are regularly 40GBs or more, it kinda blows my mind that there is a fuss over a 2 or 3 GB folder of lossless music files.
     
  16. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad XSEED admin

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    It sounds like the general thought right now is that this isn't worth trying to "fix" at the moment, due to the possible QA complications and also the amount of time it would take to convert and test all the files. However, I've also been assured that since Steam compresses games for download, the actual difference this will make in download size is minimal -- the only real concern is the size of the game on the end-user's HD, which shouldn't be much of a problem in this day and age.

    So yeah. WAVs it is, apparently! But again, now you at least know the quality couldn't get a whole lot better. ;)

    -Tom
     
    strife.v1 likes this.
  17. soundersfan84

    soundersfan84 Member

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    220
    that's my understanding too that steam does compress games then decompresses it once its in the game directory.
     
  18. uyjulian

    uyjulian New Member

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    22
    Steam probably compresses it using lossless compression like zlib/lzma. It won't be as effective as formats like FLAC and Opus.

    Here are some FACTS (yes, you can try this too):
    Code:
    Last login: Tue Jul 18 16:30:14 on ttys003
    julians-MBP:~ julian$ cd /Users/julian/Music/music_colle/Sen\ no\ Kiseki\ OST\ Master
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ du -h \ 英雄伝説\ 閃の軌跡\ サウンドトラック・オリジナルマ_01_序幕\ -激動の時代へ-.flac
    26M    英雄伝説 閃の軌跡 サウンドトラック・オリジナルマ_01_序幕 -激動の時代へ-.flac
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ ffmpeg -i \ 英雄伝説\ 閃の軌跡\ サウンドトラック・オリジナルマ_01_序幕\ -激動の時代へ-.flac 00.wav
    ffmpeg version 3.3.2 Copyright (c) 2000-2017 the FFmpeg developers
    ...
    Input #0, flac, from ' 英雄伝説 閃の軌跡 サウンドトラック・オリジナルマ_01_序幕 -激動の時代へ-.flac':
      Metadata:
        TITLE           : 序幕 -激動の時代へ-
        ARTIST          : Falcom Sound Team jdk
        ALBUM           : 「英雄伝説 閃の軌跡」サウンドトラック・オリジナルマスター
        ENSEMBLE        : Falcom Sound Team jdk
        track           : 1
    ...
      Duration: 00:02:04.99, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 1718 kb/s
        Stream #0:0: Audio: flac, 48000 Hz, stereo, s32 (24 bit)
    ...
    Output #0, wav, to '00.wav':
    ...
        Stream #0:0: Audio: pcm_s16le ([1][0][0][0] / 0x0001), 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 1536 kb/s
    ...
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ du -h 00.wav
    23M  00.wav
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ gzip -k 00.wav
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ xz -k 00.wav
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ du -h 00.wav.gz
    22M    00.wav.gz
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ du -h 00.wav.xz
    21M    00.wav.xz
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ ffmpeg -i \ 英雄伝説\ 閃の軌跡\ サウンドトラック・オリジナルマ_01_序幕\ -激動の時代へ-.flac -acodec libvorbis 00.ogg
    ...
    Output #0, ogg, to '00.ogg':
    ...
        Stream #0:1: Audio: vorbis (libvorbis), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp (24 bit)
    ...
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ ffprobe 00.ogg
    ...
    Input #0, ogg, from '00.ogg':
    ...
        Stream #0:1: Audio: vorbis, 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 112 kb/s
    ...
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ du -h 00.ogg
    1.7M    00.ogg
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ ffmpeg -i \ 英雄伝説\ 閃の軌跡\ サウンドトラック・オリジナルマ_01_序幕\ -激動の時代へ-.flac -acodec libopus 00.opus
    ...
    Input #0, flac, from ' 英雄伝説 閃の軌跡 サウンドトラック・オリジナルマ_01_序幕 -激動の時代へ-.flac':
    ...
      Duration: 00:02:04.99, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 1718 kb/s
        Stream #0:0: Audio: flac, 48000 Hz, stereo, s32 (24 bit)
    ...
    Output #0, opus, to '00.opus':
    ...
        Stream #0:0: Audio: opus (libopus), 48000 Hz, stereo, flt (24 bit), 96 kb/s
    ...
    julians-MBP:Sen no Kiseki OST Master julian$ du -h 00.opus
    1.5M    00.opus
    
    

    Original .flac from Sen no Kiseki OST Master is 26 MB.
    Converted to .wav with 16 bits per sample: 23MB
    gz compressed wav: 22MB
    xz compressed wav: 21 MB
    Converted to .ogg: 1.7MB
    Converted to .opus: 1.5MB

    Bonus:
    Audio track (MP3) extracted from ed8_PRE.avi: 3.8MB
    64k .opus: 1.0MB (people who haven't heard the original versions of these soundtracks won't notice)
    48k .opus: 764KB (quality suffers)
    32k .opus: 512KB (quality suffers)

    If you have a chance to choose a codec, choose opus. It is the best one out there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  19. KlausRealta

    KlausRealta Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,800
    Location:
    California
    Considering your answers towards compressed audio files because of QA, I'm already guessing this will be a no, but since other people have been suggesting it, I'll ask anyway.

    Is it possible to change the SP charge button in Seven PC from holding down the attack button to being automatic while not attacking like it is in Celceta? Obviously, it's not an issue, but it would make the game feel better especially to those who have played Celceta or will be playing VIII when that comes out soon.
     
  20. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad XSEED admin

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    Hmm. There is some merit to the idea, but Ys Seven wasn't actually designed with that functionality in mind, and as a couple coworkers pointed out, several of the charge attacks in-game do cause you to "lunge" a bit, which may not always be tactically advantageous -- so not allowing players to choose when and where to charge could be kind of problematic under certain conditions. So if we were to add this functionality, I think the only realistic way to do so would be as a togglable option in the launcher that defaults to "off," maybe.

    Still worth looking into, though. I've passed the suggestion along for review.

    -Tom
     

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