Yoru No Nai Kuni (Ps Vita And Ps3/ps4)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by asdronin, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. Chaosblade77

    Chaosblade77 Well-Known Member

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    I agree it's kind of odd they would omit the Vita version since there is an established audience for niche games like this on the system, but KT making a strange decision and then possibly going back on it makes a whole lot more sense than Sony attempting to secretly sabotage their own platform to gain some negligible amount of mindshare.

    If Sony really wanted to be done with the Vita in the west they could just stop accepting games and call it a day. No need to try to manipulate things in the shadows.
     
  2. asdronin

    asdronin New Member

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    Thanks for explaining this TiliNelson2, you sound like you are very well informed on this stuff like you work on gaming press or even gaming company =). I have to agree in all you said, seems like many midsezed games are announced for the Vita in Japan but none are from Sony and even the Gravity Rush 2 was announced as Ps4 only when many people had hopes upon this last light coming to the Vita. Also the Sony's guy who stuttered oh well... I still remember I was told by someone there were no Vita announcement in Sony's conference then when I watched it and reached that dude mistake... there was me double checking on World of Final Fantasy target console. I see what you say that Sony is probably only going to sell some more Vita's units and nothing more, I wonder about the meaning of the handheld division non present in their financial reports, I know they closed their servers for PS Mobile games making it impossible to even redownload already bought games, so I just hope they dont close their Vita's server too.

    About Japan I guess until people get really used to the Ps4 that situation will last there for some time, maybe there we will see a situation like the Dreamcast I mean they were making games in Japan when the console was seen as dead in the west. But considering that some companies are even discarding the localizing of an already translated Ps4 game like the Yoru no nai kuni then that would mean we face a future where many midsized but decent games are made in Japan but maybe none are coming to the west. Maybe it makes Japan look even more like paradise for Vita users.

    The fact about NIS and Conpile Heart announcing Vita exclusives makes more sense after reading what you said, guess we wouldnt be surprised if they were making Ps3/Vita versions instead of any Ps4 exclusive or not.


    I think the midquel is probably selling bad because as said its midquel in fact in the PS store its defined as the previous Deception Iv plus some extras (when the truth is it adds a new storyline with different setting), that makes many people think its only previous game with some DLCs making it only a must buy for hardcore fans from the Devil Deceltion saga (like me), additionally in some areas its digital release only, but the prize is the same as the Deception IV BT, all that summarized makes the numbers for that midquel game really bad I guess, if they decide their movement upon the Yoru no nai kuni Vita's version based on that they should study all the circunstances around it first.
     
  3. tilinelson2

    tilinelson2 Active Member

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    They are not "secretly sabotaging" their platform. There is no hideous conspiracy against the poor Vita owners. It is just more than evident that Sony is taking PS4 success and pushing for everybody putting everything they have on it, while gradually dropping Vita and PS3 support. They have no reason to kill Vita ASAP, but they have many reasons to start dropping support for apps, network features, and even discouraging games that are available on PS4 as well.

    It would be ridiculous for them to stop accepting Vita games when they are still accepting PSP games, but doing nothing to convince publishers to publish Vita versions when there is a PS4 version is completely acceptable. Haven't you noticed that some indies started canceling their Vita versions? What does that mean? That probably Sony incentives to indies were reduced only to PS4 versions. We don't know if they are not giving some kind of incentive for PS4 versions of multiplatform games (like cheaper license fees), leading companies to indirectly consider PS4 versions of games only. It would not be a forced situation, but would mean the same thing (Sony trying to encourage companies to publish only on PS4).
     
  4. novurdim

    novurdim New Member

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    Well, pretty much what I'd expect from a company as despicable as sony so I wouldn't be surprised if it's not that far from truth.
     
  5. Chaosblade77

    Chaosblade77 Well-Known Member

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    Like I said before, it's much more likely that Sony is providing incentives for PS4 versions of games than it is for them to be actively discouraging Vita versions. Increasing licensing fees, removing existing incentives, etc. would absolutely be "actively discouraging." The Vita is not successful, it's not surprising developers and publishers aren't tripping over themselves to support it. It's not any different from the Wii U which has also seen cancellations and bare minimum priority.

    I don't agree that Sony has anything to gain from doing that either. You talk about it being a wonderland of exclusives due to the Vita versions not being released, but how is that not negligible? Hardly anyone cares about the Vita in the west, the games are practically exclusive regardless of whether they have Vita versions or not. The only group impacted is the tiny, near insignificant subset of Vita owners who want everything on the Vita and don't care about the PS4. And all Sony is going to do is piss them off, which isn't going to encourage them to buy a PS4.
     
  6. novurdim

    novurdim New Member

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    The situation is not the same as with wiiu. Games are not developed for it, but it still sees a decent amount of support from Nintendo. While vita has plenty of games per se but its own creator is desperately trying to make its life miserable. Similar but at the same time completely different positions. Which only further solidifies just how pathetic Sony is.
     
  7. tilinelson2

    tilinelson2 Active Member

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    Your assumptions are baseless, probably sampled from that place where every discourse that is not "every game would look and play better on PS4 (and every game would sell better on 3DS)" was suppressed, so you say there is a "near insignificant subset of Vita owners who want everything on the Vita and don't care about the PS4." Meanwhile, many niche companies bought the narrative that "if you want to sell in the west, make a PS4 version", but so far most of these games flopped on PS4, and many had to be ported to Steam in order to reach the non-PS3 and non-Vita audience.

    That is pretty important for Japanese developers. Sales of PS4 versions of multiplatform games are usually way below their PS3 and Vita counterparts in Japan. If the excuse that the PS4 version is meant to the west doesn't stick, these developers' next games may end up on a Nintendo system, PC or mobile. You say there is no need for Sony to push the sales to PS4 in the west by sacrificing PS3 and Vita, but if you take the average PS3/PS4/Vita game that sees less than 20% of its sales in Japan on PS4. If it doesn't have at least 66% of its diminished sales on PS4 in the west (and they never have), companies will not want to spend money to make a PS4 version. They will rather have their game on Steam instead. And, with PS3 market shrinking quickly in Japan, and Sony handheld division having no future, where they will go?

    Can Sony afford to lose almost all their Japanese support? Maybe, since Japanese market is not THAT strong anymore, at least not on traditional gaming platforms, as mobile is more than 50% of their game market. But they will also be losing a non-negligible amount of revenue at the same time (last year Sony has gotten around $100 million out of fees for Vita software in Japan), and be much more vulnerable in the west. After all, one of the best PS4 features is to have the same support as XBox in the west plus lots of support from Japan. What if they lost Japanese support and the combination of PC, Microsoft not blundering the reveal and pricing of their next console and Nintendo staged launches make a dent on their western gaming business? They can't afford to "rescue" another PS3, so they want to get hold of overall support like they had on PS2 era. If they don't manage to get at least 80% of those 50k sales of Japanese niche games in the west on PS4, they will lose their support quickly.
     
  8. Chaosblade77

    Chaosblade77 Well-Known Member

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    Of course the audience isn't on PS4 yet - because the games aren't. You seem to be operating under the assumption that trends don't change as new variables are introduced. By your logic, companies should never release new platforms because the audience is on the old one. Let's see how things change once the PS4 starts getting more niche exclusives and actually has something to sell systems to that audience. Skimming the list of releases the only two exclusives I see at all are Onechanbara and Omega Quintet. PSP is probably a good example to look back on, it didn't exactly have a lot of niche support early on either, but by the end of it's life it was the go-to platform for niche games.

    I also don't see why my assumptions are baseless and incorrect when I'm the one assuming the status quo hasn't changed. You yourself alluded to how small the Vita audience is previously:
    Is that exaggerated "dozen" worth catering to or not?
     
  9. Ammy175

    Ammy175 Well-Known Member

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    Okay, seriously, could you all stop now? Is this a thread about a game or a thread about whether or not Sony is a scummy, piece of poop company?

    If, for some reason, you really feel the need to continue... whatever this is, PMs exist for a reason.
     
  10. tilinelson2

    tilinelson2 Active Member

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    I don't know how you reached that conclusion, all my argument is around Sony actively trying to force the fanbase to go to PS4 instead of letting the things roll because changes occur faster than you think. Many games are on PS4 + PS3 or PSV. In Japan, apart from Sony, there aren't many companies willing to make a niche PS4 exclusive, and at least in Japan the sales of niche games in PS4 are very low, even for low standards these companies have. It is a very important aspect, considering that PS4 more than 1.5 year in Japanese market. The number of exclusives is not growing, so some artificial exclusives in the west started to pop up, like Dragon Quest Heroes, this game, indies that had other versions canned. Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't believe it is.

    The point is not that things won't change, but that if it takes too long, they may change in a way Sony may not like (PC, Nintendo, mobile, etc). What do you think series like God Eater (one of PSP and Vita best sellers in Japan) will to if PS4 versions keep flopping? Go to the next Nintendo handheld. They can't afford to switch from an horizon of 400k sales to 100k sales at best, or hope the other 300k will migrate immediately to PS4 if Vita is retired. And Sony can't afford to wait very long if they want to convince Japanese niche and mid-sized developers to invest in PS4. Next Nintendo hardware will probably come next year and if PS4 software sales are still shaky in Japan, they will probably lose all those "faithful" developers like NIS, Falcom, IF, Gust, etc. It may happen that the next Nintendo hardware flops, but Sony would have to be very lucky to have the lightning fall three times at the same place, so they'd better prove to those "faithful" that PS4 alone can carry the torch as quickly as possible, if they can.

    And I didn't say anything about Vita audience, but the actual number of tweets. Tweets are very different from the number of players, or you believe that Tales of Hearts R sold only 500 copies, since it was the number of votes it got in the poll?
     
  11. asdronin

    asdronin New Member

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    Well I am not giving new data but summarizing what have been said, I think the point is big companies like Sony and probably all companies really only try first to do the best for their pockets and later if possible make their customers happy (as that will be good for their pockets in the future). So maybe right now Sony look like the evil one for the Vita owners in the west (like me) mainly as Sony is trying to put everything they have on the Ps4 and as said some indies are being cancelled for the Vita or at least physical release canceled for it (like Shovel knight), guess they give incentives that lead people to make Ps4 exclusive. Maybe in Japan is all different because as it has been said before Japanese audience are into the Ps3 and Vita more than the Ps4, so the point here I guess is the same, a Japanese company making a game and wanting it to be sold at its best thinks its better to make it Ps3 and Vita or even only Vita making the Vita not a failure in Japan, but still in the global scenario I guess Sony can afford to lose all Japanese market if they keep the rest of the world, could they be doing it? so maybe we will see Vita games coming out in Japan long time after we consider the Vita out of market in the west like they are accepting PSP games nowadays (well I dont know which ones but I heard the Summon Night release) and surelly not Sony's will but I guess the fact that they only want to earn the most out of their hardware and game so putting everything on the Ps4 seems like the best option for them, even if the Vita owners hate them for doing that which is normal reaction after all is not old hardware and could still receive many cool games from Japan and other sources.

    However there is one thing that is going around my mind for some time, a handheld cant be compared to a bigger home console, I mean its all different we all know, but still it seems Sony consider them to be the same as if one sells few (the Vita in the west) then it cant coexist with their Ps4, I mean I can understand they want to replace the Ps3 with the Ps4 as after all they fit in same place at home users etc but the gap lwhere the Vita is could only be slightly compared to mobile market but Sony apparently discarded all that from their company reports so what does that mean? maybe they are shorter on money and hopes that they cant afford trying longer with 2 consoles on the market? not having a handheld division makes it for sure that there wont be a new Sony handheld in a while (not that people will trust them again so easily) but I think even if the other companies handhelds and cell phones market is so big they should still have a kind of representation there, right? some people might buy a Vita over a Ps4 even in the west for some reasons like the catalogue or their habits for playing like playing on the go or travelling much due to work etc not to mention the price difference, I mean even in the west some people might still prefer the Vita over the Ps4 but if that dissapears then they will go to the 3ds I guess making Sony lose part of their potential or past market
     
  12. Chaosblade77

    Chaosblade77 Well-Known Member

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    This was streamed here earlier. First gameplay section starts at 6:55.

    Didn't watch a whole lot, but the gameplay looks like it's probably fun as long as it doesn't overstay its welcome, and there aren't too many cutscenes interrupting the action once the story gets going. Music shows some promise too.

    Definitely looks like Vita is the lead platform.
     
  13. asdronin

    asdronin New Member

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    Thanks for the link =), you are right, looks like gameplay is fun, cutscenes dont interrupt it a lot I think, I think there might be different camera settings for action parts, I have seen in previous debut trailer closer action so I guess there are like 2 or 3 possible setting for that, if this gets finally the Vita version localized Im getting it for sure
     

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