Trails of Cold Steel III English Release Thread

Discussion in 'The Legend of Heroes Series' started by Cold_Steel_IV, Oct 18, 2019.

  1. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

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    after spending all your tickets, you have the longest dungeon/boss in the game, and by longest I mean, probably as long as 3 dungeons worth if you skip enemies about 2/3 of the t ime like me (I kill them on sight until I get their stats then skip them).. After said dungeon, you get a very very long story sequence in the game. I di dn't time it myself, but let's say 5 hours at least, unless you Fast forward everything. After chapter 4. the ' final chapter' is actually not really a chapter. it's more like the epilogue... chapter 4 should have been titled final chapter imo. THAT said, the part you are at? After it? Prob one of my absolute fave parts of the entire sequence... enjoy! After all the story stuff is 1 more dungeon, which is pretty on-rails, so shouldn't take long until the final area where there is a lot more story dumping but actually less than I expected.
     
  2. Kikki

    Kikki Active Member

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    on a hill over the river
    I don't think you ever came across as a 'creep', Ghaleon; you were just trying to explain your stance. And I actually am asexual, btw. :) No doubt there. A lot of my own preferences come from that as well. I think 'romance' is severely overplayed and strong familial and platonic relationships are sadly UNDERplayed, and I find it very tiresome, after a while. Which is definitely one reason why I really dislike the Elise x Rean thing and wish she'd just properly be his sister...treat him like true family, not a romantic prospect. (I have two sisters, but I don't think my having sisters influences my opinion much. Maybe? Sisters are really great. There's nothing quite like a sister, even though I have also had absolutely wonderful friends. Not sure about brothers, as I have never had one of those.) I just feel like Rean needs to feel at home in a family more than he needs yet another girl going hearty-eyed over him. Feeling like he doesn't belong anywhere is one of his major issues, after all, and I want him to have a real home, not a place where his sister is mooning over him and his 'parents' think it'd be nice if he just went ahead and married his own sis, because to me that means none of them have ever completely thought of him as family, though I am at least convinced that they all love him.

    Though I know some people like the bro x sis thing specifically; probably a case of enjoying the forbidden. That's fine; it's just not for me in cases where the two grew up with each other when they were TINY (Elise being 3 and Rean being...5 or 6, right? This is also why I don't feel they are the same as Estelle and Joshua at all, since they were 10-12 at the time and never actually thought of each other as siblings, imo) and naturally, I've got my reasons. It's probably because Rean is my favourite and I really care about his happiness, so I overthink on what's 'best' for him.

    I also don't think you're being overly negative. I sometimes make it sound like I hated CS III, too, I think, as things you dislike are always easier to remember in detail than things you like. And when a series is important to you, what you perceive as flaws in it are amplified because you love it so much. If you didn't care, you'd probably shrug off all those bits and forget about them.

    It's still hard to say...I'll need to play CS III again, but...I think I enjoyed II more than III. (But III more than I.) It'd be ideal for me if IV turns out to be my favourite; nothing could be better than ending the series on a high note.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  3. Ringwraith

    Ringwraith Well-Known Member

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    I kinda left out the clarification I meant falling into the sibling relationship they definitely should have instead.
    So it can stop being weird.
     
    Kikki likes this.
  4. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

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    Alright, at the final stretch in the finale where I can finally start controlling my party. Overall been a lot of great stuff even if I knew most of the stuff that was going down. Though there was a moment with some info dump where it felt like it was too much, needed some breathing room but just a minor nitpick. Something that has been bothering me from something you learn near the end of chapter 4.

    My take away from the Emperor's conversation is that all these really bad things made by certain individuals is not because they were terrible people, but because the land is cursed and they did it because of that. The best takeaway I could get from that is the curse causes people to move in more extreme directions than they would usually take, but even then that feels like a cop out for saying that people wouldn't do thing like Hamel if it wasn't for the curse, when we've seen before the worst in humanity and the best in humanity because that's just how the world is. I'm extremely worried this means many actions by the end of the 4th game will be waived away because "Hey, they didn't mean it, it was because of the curse". I hope I'm wrong but some little bits of info I know about the 4th game raises doubts in my mind they will pull it off well.
     
  5. AttentionDeficitGuy

    AttentionDeficitGuy Well-Known Member

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    2,379
    Yeah, that was/is pretty much my reaction as well.

    Right now, I'm still hopeful that the curse ends up being less of a compulsion and more like demonic temptation in the Christian tradition (or "demonic obsession" for anyone who knows their exorcism terminology). I think my perceptions were colored a bit in that direction by the time I finished the game - I'd be curious to know how you feel about it after you've done the Final Chapter.

    And of course, its not like all of the worst bits of human nature we see in the series can be placed at the feet of the curse - we still got the DG Cult (operated in Crossbell, Calvard, and Leman) and Renne's backstory (a little more geographically ambiguous, but I think that happened in Calvard?).
     
  6. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

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    811
    in regards to the above 2 posts:

    Yeah I don't think it's exactly a 'curse', but more like possession/manipulation. That said I'm kind of confused because IIRC Weismann took credit for Hamel to Loewe at the end of SC. So Perhaps he in fact participated in some of this possession. Also of note is how Ash's eye seems to be the source of his ailment, and Weismann was often making people go '*gasp* The evil eye!' with some kind of paralysis ability. Plus in 3rd, IIRC, we find out he gained an ability by gaining some kind of understanding with one of the devils. Astarte I think it was. I think I spoiled myself as to what exactly Erebonia's 'curse' is though, and my limited semi-avoiding spoiler understanding has nothing to do with Weismann, or Astarte, (or any of the devils in 3rd)

    One thing I find curious is regarding Millium/Altina:
    endgame cs3 spoilers:
    So they are artificially created by the black workshop, and though I never doubted this at any point, Alberach however states that the only material powerful enough to kill a sacred beast is something forged with a soul. Maybe I'm thinking too much into this, but how do you artificially create a soul? Was a natural life somehow spent in the creation of Millium/Altina, so they inherited their soul in place?

    Regarding the cliffhangerness of CS3's end
    While it certainly ends in a way you know more has to happen. I thought FC's cliffhanger was far more agonizing. CS3's end was more... of a high towards a climax in an overall plot. But it definitely wasn't something where I'll simply DIE if I don't know what happens next RIGHT NOW. kinda thing. As for the courageous. Maybe my mindset is wrong. But I'm somehow doubting it's as it seems because frankly if Kiseki has any faults, it's that it rarely kills off characters. I really doubt it'll just axe so many all at once like that, especially Olivier when he's pretty much a fan fave. To me the most interesting thing is how will CS4 start? Is Rean not the protagonist in CS4? Seems he's all imprisoned up now or something, seems like he's kind of in a bind (pun wasn't intended but thought meh, don't care enough to fix it) to begin the next chapter!

    Random thing that probably isn't important but maybe I'm wrong, Middle of game to late CS3 spoiler
    At one point Rean's asks crow why he's wearing his mask, crow said 'same reason as the steel maiden'... Except later, SHE is asked to remove her mask, and she's like 'meh, kay' and does it.. Seems to leave it off for most of the game after too IIRC. Then Crow's magically falls off the moment he gets some memory flashback, and it seems like said flashback was more like a complete memory reboot or something. Did story writers screw this part up?
     
  7. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

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    300
    After 86 hours of playtime over the time since release date, finally finished the game. Gonna need some time to digest everything before giving my full thoughts. I will say that events near the end cleared up stuff from my previous post which makes it overall better. Definitely the best Cold Steel game of the 3 which fixed a number of issues I had with the previous two as far as pacing and how to handle the cast overall.

    Also, while I knew a number of plot points and knew how the last hour of the game went down knowing what is being said during the scenes definitely made it more engaging.
     
  8. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

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    811
    I dunno if I think it was the best. The combat seemed even easier due to break mechanics mostly. Once you get a boss in break status you can go on the full offensive and even without sledgehammer you can get them near broken again before their next turn.

    I also found the unimportant npc chatter to be much less engaging. It was almost a chore to do compared to cs1 and 2 IMO.

    The major events of each chapter were more gripping though, and chapter 4 and 5 was possibly my fave stretch in the kiseki series.

    I think it would be a lot better for me if I just ignored the npcs and knew who had the books and hidden quests, because talking to everyone after every event when every town you visit in that game was way bigger than cs1 and 2 really bogged it down for me.
     
  9. Kikki

    Kikki Active Member

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    Location:
    on a hill over the river
    I love the whole series, but of the three, II is still my favourite. III comes after that. :)

    Btw, did you guys see that NISA is bringing Cold Steel III to Switch in Spring 2020? I keep seeing people now wanting the first two on Switch, or asking if the third can be played without the first two. (And I'm surprised to hear anyone say that the summary in III is good enough to go ahead and skip the first two. I mean, okay, but...I think that's pretty crazy. It'd be like starting a movie half way through after reading a few pages of text about who the characters are and what they've done so far. I guess you can get by on it, but...)
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  10. AttentionDeficitGuy

    AttentionDeficitGuy Well-Known Member

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    I dunno - I feel like CS3 isn't that bad a starting point. I certainly wouldn't recommend it over, say, starting with Sky FC or CS1, but if someone was like "hey, I'm interested in this series, and I wanna start with this entry," I'd probably be like "the first Cold Steel is a better starting point, but if you got your heart set on starting with 3, then go for it!" whereas if they said the same thing about Sky the 3rd or CS2, I'd be more like "yeah, you can do what you want, but I'm gonna hard recommend starting with FC/CS1 instead."

    Like, I feel like your comparison is closer to what starting with SC or CS2 or Ao is like, and starting with CS3 would be more like watching Avengers: Infinity War as your first MCU movie, or The Empire Strikes Back as your first Star Wars movie.
     
  11. Kikki

    Kikki Active Member

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    That's good, I guess, if people will feel okay with starting there, since probably quite a few more people will be, now. First there were a few people who had a PS4 but not a PS3, but now there's going to be a big influx of Nintendo fans who aren't familiar with the series at all.

    But to me, all of those examples sound pretty bad, lol. Some sound less terrible than others, but overall...still not good. I would be really uncomfortable picking up CS III, and starting out with these characters who obviously know each other and have a history, and everything they say is loaded with reference to things that came before. Knowing who Rean is and how he got where he is is a huge part of how I saw everything that happened in the game. I tried reading the summary to see what it was like, but it was painfully boring to do so. Felt as much fun as studying did, back in high school. I think a lot of people will skip it and will therefore be going in not knowing anything about the series at all. Gotta wonder what kind of impression they'd get of everything when everything in CS III is built on stuff that happened in the previous two games (as well as the others, but most urgently the Cold Steel games, of course.)

    Any story that begins in the middle of the action, with characters making references to things I know nothing about, is something I can't stand. I don't even like that the Cold Steel games began with flashbacks...that's a peeve of mine. (I hate starting on a flashback! It makes me feel out-of-sorts.) Well...I'd rather this series took off and became even more popular, and I'm pretty sure a load of people are now going to be starting the series with CS III, so I hope most of them don't have my distaste for not understanding references to details not told in the current game.

    Plus...I'm really glad that I did not meet Rean as a soldier or war hero. Meeting him as (basically) a high school student, unsure of what he was doing or where he was going, is pretty important to how my view of him shaped up. And I think all the continual jabs about Rean's multitude of love interests would be even more irritating if I didn't know where they came from.
     
  12. Ringwraith

    Ringwraith Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I with the "this is an absolutely terrible starting point" opinion here.
    Jumping into part three of an ongoing essentially book series (is the closet comparison, not many other mediums are as interconnected as this) at the minimum is usually a bad idea?
    And really, it's more like the sixth or eighth, although I think Sky is way more required than the Crossbells as far as I can tell.

    It takes your understanding of things for granted, and the flashbacks mostly exist to jog your memory (they've always been good at framing references to the past in this sort of way), similarly, the entire blocks of text that are the optional recap very much should serve as a refresher, not your way of learning things. Especially as that would make it required reading before you even start if not used as a memory jogger.
     
  13. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

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    Compared to the other 2 yeah, you can break the game much earlier due to what kind of options you get so early. I remember in the first two having to go through a good chunk of the game until you could properly set up ways to just one shot bosses where here with breaking, using orders, then spamming s-crafts meant the bosses went down easily. That said, even with Sky the gameplay is an aspect I don't find myself praising it for so I can't get mad about gameplay portions.

    Can't comment on NPC stuff because while it makes the world feel alive when playing the game and talking to people, I don't remember most NPC stuff from any of the games.

    As for jumping on point, while I believe you can easily follow this game without having played the crossbell games unlike what many thought (and same for sky mostly), I think playing I and II should be the way to go. Yeah, they give context but when you have all this new information being thrown at you while referencing the first 2 games, there are late game scenes that would be hard to follow to new players. Early game was fine but especially chapter 4 and final chapter has a lot of stuff going on that is hard to follow or appreciate without already knowing how previous events played out.
     
  14. Ringwraith

    Ringwraith Well-Known Member

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    The random dialogue writing is just not as well done this time, which is very "this localisation was rushed".
    Especially considering some of them are completely jumbled nonsense or have the problem of frequent chuckles that previously XSEED tended to purge from the scripts as it's just awkward in English.
     
  15. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

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    811
    One thing I miss were the field study train sequences in cs1. Something about the way they are done in the morning with more automated dialogue while moving and that BGM that ALWAYS made me excited and happy.

    In cs3 the train sequences just didn't pump me up as much.
     
  16. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

    Messages:
    300
    Ok, ready to post my non spoiler thoughts on the game, and will mainly stick to the positives since I've stated my negatives for the most part.

    First of all, let's start with Rean, the character who has been a mixed bag for me. I genuinely enjoyed him in this game and warmed up to him quite a bit. I think him being a teacher helped a lot in making him feel like he was actually doing stuff because he wanted to, and less because it felt like he was forced to be the chore boy. A lot of it comes from the fact he actively chose the profession after everything he went through, and being a mentor I think his speeches and advice came off a lot better and a bit less cheesy in a way. Biggest thing is how he would actually be forceful in tone and demand answers. In the previous games it felt like he just let things go by and not really question things, but here he will be more direct. Of course, all of this comes from all the crap he had to go through so he's probably gotten tired of a lot of what he went through so had to harden himself more. It also helps we are finally getting more progress into his character arc where the first two games it felt mostly static. If and when the 4th game comes out I am genuinely interested in seeing how his arc ends.

    The pacing of the game was on point, where much like Sky FC and 3rd I didn't feel like it ever dragged. In CS I the final chapter felt off and the final dungeon felt tacked on with little build up and connection to the story. CS II the pacing was abysmal for most of the 2nd act which hampered my enjoyment a good bit. So having it flow smoothly was great so little things that did annoy me from time to time would go away quickly since there wasn't much time to dwell on it. I think the other two games I got a bit critical at certain points because it felt like I was just taking a long road to get where the story would progress and that made me focus on flaws a bit more. I mentioned it before, but while pacing was on point, outside of the new class VII I felt there was a struggle to juggle all these characters, and there were a number of moments while ok to good could've been much better if there wasn't so much going on. This is very apparent with old class VII, where we get background of what they've been up to and how they are moving along with their goals, but with so many characters we don't get much focus on each one. It's hey here's what I've been up to, peace out, then return later to help out. Not to say there isn't good moments with them, even Emma and Alisa had moments I liked from them, but I can't think of moments with them that had a lot of impact.

    As someone who hasn't played the Crossbell games, I think they did a good job giving the info you need to follow along what was going on. At no point was I confused in the story because I lacked information. Of course there was references I missed and certain moments would've been more emotional if I had played them, but it didn't hinder my ability to enjoy the game.

    Much like 3rd, this game gave a lot of world building and background info that was much appreciated. Kiseki is the one series where I love the lore, so all the little breadcrumbs we get is always appreciated.

    While the game looks smoother compared to the previous two games, personally the animations just haven't been able to top what the Sky games gave me. It's a very personal opinion, but playing 3rd with my friend while playing this game, I don't get the same expressiveness that I get from the Sky games. This is both emotion from the faces and portraits to the epic feel of battles. Sky had characters do some pretty cool looking fights despite a more simplistic sprite design, where here battles look stiff. Heck, one of the most epic battles that takes place in the game shows what's happening around the fight, but we don't see it, it's fade away and see the results after a strike. Doesn't take away from my enjoyment from the game, but it could really elevate these moments if there was smooth animations to see these epic fights take place.

    Lastly, the voice cast of the new characters and non returning cast. Millium was a little weird at first but I came to love it, same for Victor. While noticeably different it still worked for their respective characters and didn't feel off to how they are. I can see Millium being a little tougher since she has a much more restrained energy to her voice. Campanella was the one I was most unsure of, but in the end I was fine with it. Not my favorite, but I think the voiced line I heard in the review from Kill Scott Kill wasn't the best clip for a first impression. There were other scenes where the voice worked well. New Class VII worked well for each of their roles and fit their characters pretty well. I know there were those out there who weren't big on Juna's voice, but I liked it. Of course, big shout out's to the person who voiced Becky. Her lines were few and very far in between, but I loved it and every time I went to her shop and heard her voice I got giddy.

    Last big positive, oh my Aidios Cerberus was just the best puppers. The things you saw that dog do just melted my heart and was just great. There has to be a spinoff game staring Jingo and Cerberus.
     
  17. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

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    811
    'blah'.
    Nothing you said I directly disagree with, but want to elaborate on things.

    First being the comment on preferring the facial 2d artist approach in sky over 3rd... This is understandable. But the thing is in sky, that only really affected playable characters, and super important npcs like richard, morgan... the mayors, and uhh... that's mostly it. While I can understand you liking that for the main cast over what happens in CS, The benefit of 3d characters is that everyone has a little benefit in cs. For example. I specifically mentioned that I thought cs3 was weaker than previous games in terms of unimportant npc depth. HOWEVER, this was not caused to it being 3d over 2d, just... lack of effort? One of the few examples of unimportant npcs in cs3 being a recognizeable character was little luna's family, being her 2 parents, her butler who cherishes her, and the maid who is learning to adore her. As a kid, she asks a lot of questions, and you see her family answer her with various strategies of tall tales, honesty, and in-between. despite being a completely unimportant npc, you can see facial expressions on her. FC may do them better with 2d art, but if she, or her family was in FC, they wouldn't have a face-portrait AT ALL. But they do in CS3 (and 1 and 2). As for the animations, I thought they were worse than ever before. Upragding to the ps4 was hardly apparent to me... Hair physics was much better, I g rant them that, thank you, but late chapter 4 when cryptid's invade the capital, holy hell did my fps tank HARD. Didn't h elp that it didn't let you organize party members in advance, and you had your ideal party for 1 fight, and then without warning, you had leftovers for the next. I spent more time on that fight than I did on trash+boss+trash+boss in the final chapter!

    edit: post sounds mega-negative. Sorry. I think the game was great. It's just that after my entire lifetime, this series is my fave, and perfection is its s tandard, hence my hyper-criticism. It was great, but perfection is a standard it made me believe possible, so... yeah.
     
  18. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

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    Maybe when I go into spoiler talks there will be something to disagree with.

    Totally get how the 3D style helps out more with NPCs, and yes that does help out a lot when it comes to NPCs. However, for me the loss of that in Sky games is fine because while I enjoy the NPC stuff it isn't a huge loss in the grand scheme of things for me.Though I suppose if all things came equal between this game and Sky FC and 3rd it would've given it a slight edge to push past those games I also admit that I seem to be in the minority that finds the style of Sky appealing. Even those who love those games more often than not I see people rail against the presentation of the trilogy.As for Luna, she and her family was definitely one of the more stand out NPCs in the game.

    I also don't blame you with the criticisms since I am the same with Cold Steel. I feel like Sky set such a high standard that I find myself being critical when things fall short. I am looking forward to playing Crossbell in the near future since many consider the duology to be the best the series has to offer.

    Funnily enough, feels like the games that are more about build up and/or expanding lore are the strongest for me. Falcom seems to be great at setting foundations and making great worlds, but they can struggle to stick the landing when wrapping up. Though this might come from the fact that at least with Sky and Steel they wanted to keep the arcs in a certain number of games, then had to make a new game because it was more then they expected. To harp a bit on Sky for a change, Second chapter had the Zeiss portion that is still completely unmemorable to me and the tetracyclic towers that just completely halted the pace. It always feels like the second part of the story they have to make into a whole game gets padded because they have to make a full game, though for me 3rd didn't have this problem when it wasn't planned to begin with.
     
  19. AttentionDeficitGuy

    AttentionDeficitGuy Well-Known Member

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    At risk of hyping things up too much, I will say I think Ao specifically breaks the mold regarding your criticisms of the "number 2" games. That game is very tightly paced - I was actually getting flashbacks to Ao's storytelling and pacing throughout my playthrough of CS3.

    As for my take on the sprite aesthetic vs the 3D aesthetic, I'd say I actually like the sprite aesthetic more as well, but the gap is closing for me. It's clear Falcom is getting better both at 3D modeling and animation, and I think it'll eventually get to the point where their 3D models have all the charisma and charm of their old sprites. Heck, just from seeing the trailers for Ys IX, they're pretty darn close already.

    (I will say one thing where I think the sprite games will always have the advantage, or at least will for quite some time to come, is the cutscene fights - it's just part of the nature of the more limited style of Sky and Crossbell, it creates a greater disconnect from the audience and therefore a higher suspension of disbelief and ability to fill in the gaps. The detail and speed in animation required to make a cutscene fight in the Cold Steel engine as memorable as something like
    Joshua vs Loewe
    is pretty darn high.)
     
  20. Mysterial

    Mysterial New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Part of me really wants to dislike this game and try to just let it go. The endless cliffhangers are getting exhausting. Falcom seems disinterested in even trying to balance the combat. Many of the dungeons are still simplistic and linear. The middle of the game is too long. The repetitive nostalgia events and "surprise" returning character entrances. The embarrassing female costumes and ever-increasing childish innuendo.
    As much as I'll be sad if it's Olivert and co (and not in the good way because the series has made it so unbelievable), will anybody in this series actually stay dead?

    And yet...

    Nobody does continuity like this. Certainly not in games and aside from Marvel not in movies either. Seeing multiple-game-old characters and plotlines interact with the new is great even when they're overplaying it. And despite the occasional predictability, cheesiness, and unrealistic foresight, not many make a grand plan come together like this series does either. Even figuring out some of it well in advance didn't really change how it hit me to see it get laid out.

    So I guess I'm in for another one. NISA had their usual "we don't actually proofread or test" errors, but they treated the main story and dialogue well enough. Who the hell knows when 4 would actually come, though. In the meantime, I get to have this half finished thing stuck in my head. :p
     

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