Localization Scares

Discussion in 'Mostly Harmless (Serious Discussion)' started by Dancougar, Dec 6, 2015.

  1. Dancougar

    Dancougar New Member

    Messages:
    75

    The argument is bogus

    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/482/dead-or-alive-xtreme-beach-volleyball/
    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/481/dead-or-alive-xtreme-2/

    Look at these sales it sold better in Europe and the US combined then in simply japan

    This is a Japanese company they don't quite do Publicity stunts so brazenly. Controversy isn't something they go for and Sonys comments have shown the blame lies with the wests climate.

    http://nichegamer.com/2015/12/dead-or-alive-xtreme-3-not-coming-west-due-to-cultural-differences-says-sony-boss/
    http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/12/14/shuhei-yoshida-talks-about-dead-or-alive-xtreme-3s-lack-of-western-release-loves-dragons-crown/
     
  2. Ammy175

    Ammy175 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,276
    Location:
    My room
    >Using VGChartz as sales source.
     
  3. Terro

    Terro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,328
    I wish VG would just shut down :/ I too, was suckered in many a years ago with their phony numbers...

    Anyways, I doubt Xtreme sold that well here. For an Xbox-branded game on top of that. Plus niche. Seems more of a game that would rake in from Japanese fans, since Xbox was totally an Idolmaster machine back then.
     
  4. Dancougar

    Dancougar New Member

    Messages:
    75
    Burden of proof is on you to disprove this not unless you have any alternatives here

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Chaosblade77

    Chaosblade77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,622
    Would this be sufficient? http://forum.marvelous-usa.com/index.php?showtopic=26444&#entry804521

    VGChartz numbers are trash. Even things with official numbers available tend to be wrong on there.
     
  6. Ammy175

    Ammy175 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,276
    Location:
    My room
    >Does not have counter-argument

    >Denies truth

    Congrats.
     
  7. Terro

    Terro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,328
    I used the words "I doubt", meaning that it is opinion-based.

    VgChartz using fake numbers is fact. Ask any game company. Or... just Google "is Vgchartz reliable?" And you'll get a ton of stuff pop up.
     
  8. Dancougar

    Dancougar New Member

    Messages:
    75
    I'm asking for refutation because all I see is this available and this leaves the sales argument moot
     
  9. Terro

    Terro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,328
    Just because it exists, does not make it the truth. ALL game companies have refuted it. A simple Google search will tell you all about it.
     
  10. Ringwraith

    Ringwraith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,890
    Yeah, no-one really trusts those figures, it's the running joke really.
    Generally sure.
    You have to remember sometimes the different regional branches of a company get into fights over things.
    Why do you think Nintendo is so very on-point with its videos referencing popular reactions or particular memes, yet stifles anyone who wants to do any sort of coverage of their stuff on YouTube with draconian restrictions?
    I'd certainly say it's not out of the question it was deliberate, I'm leaning on it being stupidity more than that, but a distinct possibility, because good grief the free coverage it's gotten. Which others have capitalised on, like PlayAsia.
     
  11. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,158
    Location:
    Celceta
    I hear people saying that a lot, but (1) censorship has multiple definitions, one of which is perfectly suited to this usage, and (2) either way, you understand what's being described, which is the most important thing. No reason to argue semantics when there's already plenty to argue about as it is. ;)

    Not in the case of VGChartz. VGChartz numbers are a notoriously unreliable source -- they are known throughout the industry to be completely bogus and untrustworthy, which I can verify based on our own sales numbers (none of which VGChartz has ever actually gotten even close to, for any of our titles).

    If you have access to that one paid sales tracker -- NPR, I think it's called? -- that one is much, much more reliable, generally reporting +/- 5,000 units for smaller titles and +/- 10,000 units for larger titles.

    With VGChartz, the disparity can often be in the hundreds of thousands.

    -Tom
     
  12. Ringwraith

    Ringwraith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,890
    It feels like a disproportionately strong word to me for use in this context, however. It's that sort of argument of does it demean other more severe cases or not.
    Though really, the chorus of people shouting about it without actually backing it up with anything doesn't matters, instead that kind of ruins the word of any meaningful impact. It's too-often used as a single-word answer.

    There have been some interesting discussions about the argument about localisation changes being a 'slippery slope', despite they've gone for years and years and if anything mostly gotten less drastic with proper ratings boards being established. Which undermines that a bit. Some changes are obviously silly or seem overblown, but lots of others go by without anyone really caring so much, at least not as vocally as the internet tends to explode over certain things now.
    I do think that decisions made solely to avoid any sort of criticism are probably a self-defeating move though, as you're free to ignore them. Although others have probably put things far more elegantly than I, I'm mostly steering a train here.
     
  13. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,158
    Location:
    Celceta
    Honestly, I use it because I feel all cases of unnecessary censorship are extremely severe, as they all contribute negatively to the public mindset. Complacency is really our worst enemy when it comes to this sort of thing, as it really is a slippery slope -- the more we accept censorship of small, "insignificant" things, the more of a precedent we'll be setting for bigger, more significant things in the future.

    It's one of those things that the public at large is unlikely to notice or care about until the damage is already done, making it quite an insidious little nuisance.

    See, I don't know that I agree with that. Yes, censorship is less drastic now than it was in the '90s, but I'm not sure it's less drastic now than it was in the '00s -- it seems like the issue improved with the establishment of the ESRB, and continued improving over the next decade and a half, but then suddenly started going the other way around 2007-2008 or so. I feel like we're actually regressing at this point, censoring games more than we ever have *since* the '90s. We're still not as censor-happy as we were back then, but I do feel like we're definitely headed in the wrong direction at this point, and I fear the long-term consequences of that.

    -Tom
     
  14. Kintoki

    Kintoki New Member

    Messages:
    3,852
    Location:
    Indiana
    It's always felt like people trying to push their politics on to others to me. The only thing that's changed is that in the 90's it was republicans pushing, and nowadays it's the democrats.
     
  15. Augen76

    Augen76 New Member

    Messages:
    335
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Why is it Japan is so much more open about game sales than the United States? I can see Famitsu has Nitroplus Blasterz selling 7K on PS4 and 5K on PSV in its opening week just now. Why is it US data is kept so secret?
     
  16. Chaosblade77

    Chaosblade77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,622
    Tradition, basically. For some reason North American game companies feel the need to be excessively secretive about everything. Video games, serious business.
     
  17. Augen76

    Augen76 New Member

    Messages:
    335
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Seems odd when film industry is very open about film grosses and makes it a big part of marketing. Disney will be counting and announcing daily the millions Star Wars will bring in this coming week.
     
  18. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,158
    Location:
    Celceta
    It's all business politics -- not wanting to embarrass or put Japanese business partners on the spot, risk alienating investors, etc. I don't like it at all, personally, but... I signed the NDA, so I gotta stick to it! It's one of those things you just have to deal with if you work in this industry, sadly.

    -Tom
     
  19. Chaosblade77

    Chaosblade77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,622
    Yeah, it's odd. Sometimes it is suggested there are legal issues and whatnot, but that's not it. Companies announces sales information when their games do really well sometimes, for example.

    I'd imagine part of it is avoiding comparisons. If XSEED's release sells 15k copies and another company's similar game sells 60k there might be questions. That's a bad example since XSEED is wholly owned by Marvelous, but still.
     
  20. GlennMagusHarvey

    GlennMagusHarvey New Member

    Messages:
    57
    I thought it was an interesting read; thanks for posting it. Would have liked to see more details on your take on things, of course, but this will do for now I guess.

    Incidentally, regarding that quote that got you banned: I agree that fictional characters' ages are "just a number", though I feel that that argument also lends itself to supporting the idea of changing the character ages. But then in turn it lends itself to supporting the argument of "stop caring about the character ages", which could be applied against everyone's arguments.

    It would be ideal if everyone calmed down and stopped letting their jimmies get rustled over these things. I mean, I'll continue to facepalm really really hard at those people who outright demand breast size sliders. But perhaps it's best this way. I'll take my enjoyment of games to my own little corner, and they take it to their own little co--oh wait, they have to splurge all over the internet with this, and then my being a fan of the same game will be called in for questioning at the dinner table, in the lunchroom, during the coffee break, and on social media. Damnit, why can't you idiots get out of my fandom.

    To be fair though I don't have a WiiU or a 3DS so I can't actually join said (Xenoblade Chronicles) fandom yet. Though it's certainly not the only video game or other media franchise to use anime-style art...

    Thankfully, it usually doesn't come to that much of a problem, for various reasons, including my own choice of media -- fortunately, folks like Falcom know to take some stories/franchises "seriously" -- as well as the increasing mainstreamness of the anime art style so that people who have encountered it and who aren't enamored by it tend to not have been primarily exposed to the worst aspects of it.

    On a good day, it's more like how I get my fix of anime art from Safebooru. I appreciate the existence of Danbooru and Gelbooru (i.e. image boorus with NSFW images), but I don't enjoy browsing them and so I rarely go there. Safebooru gives me a place that I can browse without irritating me (all that much, at least). Doesn't mean I want the NSFW ones to disappear from the internet -- I certainly don't. But I also enjoy a pleasant browsing experience, which includes not having to look at categories of content that I don't like. Is it censorship? In a way, one could argue that it is "second-party" censorship, in that "I" am choosing what "you" show me, rather than "you" picking out stuff before I get to choose. But this is no different from simply picking out the stuff one likes in a store and ignoring everything else.

    In any case, I still feel that the needle is firmly on the side of "open information" these days, and especially given that I support having the ability to mod one's games, I still feel that -- ideally -- it's okay for publishers to edit the content as long as fans can unedit it back. It's like how I get to visit an NSFW booru if (and only if) I so choose. As practical matter, though, this lies in a horrible grey area legally where fans not only can't get compensation (and in some cases even assistance) for creating an unedit patch but could also get copyright-smacked, and basically just depend on the publisher willing to turn a legal blind eye to stuff like this, or something along those lines. So it's not really ideal.

    Come to think of it, perhaps the much-maligned "censored" Steam release + "18+" version offsite might be a fitting answer to this question? I've heard that Valve wasn't very enthused by this, but this has sorta kept on happening enough times that I'm wondering if Valve is now okay with it...

    Regardless, though, the "burn the witch" type of fans can go suck it. They can complain about "SJWs" all day long, but if they act like that, then they're no better than the worst of those against whom they rail.

    edit: oh gosh why is it that every time I post here I write essays by accident
     

Share This Page