Fate/EXTELLA is coming to the Switch in July

Discussion in 'Fate/EXTELLA' started by Battlechili, Apr 13, 2017.

  1. Ringwraith

    Ringwraith Well-Known Member

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    The term's mostly been degraded into "insult for people I disagree with" even when the original "intent" was sort of like calling people out for empathetic human beings as though that's a bad thing?
    It's a term that only hurts any legitimate points you want to make, so it just shouldn't be used.
     
  2. Wargamer

    Wargamer Member

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    What do you mean by division? You mean the lack of PS4 definitive edition?
    I agree that's is all cosmetic, even if I had them I wouldn't use them because I never use the barbie mode of those games. But it's not because I don't care about them that you can wave them in front on me "Look at all the things you won't get" and think I'll be fine with it. It's like saying censoship is fine because it doesn't change the gameplay, it's just costumes, it's just text, it's just blood, it's just an entire questline, it's just an entire character, who cares the game still play fine and the story still make sense.
    And in the end, yes it's true gameplay doesn't change and I will enjoy the game even with changes I don't like, I just won't pay a lot of money. In theory you could remove everything but Nero and I'd still enjoy it, doesn't mean I'll be fine with it.
    You can even say it's just a video game, who cares and I'll also agree but I love those video games so I'll get upset over those non-issues anyway.
     
  3. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

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    I disagree that that was the original intent. The term, as I understand it, was originally designed to call people out for not just appreciating and encouraging progressivism in media, but for militantly INSISTING upon it.

    It's a hard term to define, so let me give an example -- something other than my tired example of our own Akiba's Trip controversy.

    A few months back, James Rolfe (best known as the Angry Video Game Nerd) came under fire for releasing a video explaining why he would not be seeing or reviewing the new Ghostbusters movie.

    Anyone who's followed his work for a while will understand why this was necessary -- he's an enormous fan of Ghostbusters, having released reviews of every other piece of Ghostbusters media imaginable over the years, as well as a tour of locations used in the filming of the original '80s movies. Fans expected him to review the new movie, and were clamoring for him to do so on social media.

    Watching the video, he meticulously goes over a series of a half-dozen or so reasons why he won't be seeing the new film. These mostly consist of things that should come as no surprise to fans of his, since he has a series of very well-established cinematic pet peeves, almost all of which the new Ghostbusters film is guilty of. Crucially, none of his reasons include the female cast -- he didn't even mention the fact that all the new Ghostbusters are women, because that clearly had nothing at all to do with his lack of desire to see the movie.

    Nonetheless, James came under fire for this. Videos circulated calling him a sexist pig, news sites spoke of the controversy, and some of his hardcore detractors even started insulting his wife for having married him, or -- worst of all -- contacting his wife to more or less tell her she was an embarrassment to womankind, encourage her to get a divorce, etc.

    Almost none of the people attacking him had actually watched the video, and those who did were unwilling to accept the reasons he gave for not seeing the new movie, insisting that he was ACTUALLY not seeing it because he's sexist and can't stand the idea of an all-female Ghostbusters lineup, and the "excuses" he gave in the video were just him attempting to justify his sexism.

    The whole thing was an absolute disaster, and IMHO, the people who were attacking him for what they baselessly perceived to be sexism (and were unwilling to even entertain might NOT be sexism) perfectly exemplify "SJWs" as the term was initially intended to be used.

    Those are not people being called out simply for being "empathetic human beings." Quite the opposite: they're people with an agenda who foist that agenda upon others under the pretense of being empathetic human beings. They claim to fight for the greater good, and for equality, while essentially dictating that there is only one very narrow road leading to that greater good and equality, and anyone who strays from that road is clearly someone worthy of intense scorn.

    When someone uses the term "SJW" in reference to that sort of person, I take no umbrage with it, and I do not look upon them poorly for using the term.

    Division in offerings between PS4/Vita and Switch. The fact that it's not a 1:1 port with the same items on offer.

    As I've said, we understand those complaints, and we completely sympathize. We also make sure to let the devs know about them.

    That's really all we can do, though. Our hands are very much tied here. Sorry!

    -Tom
     
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  4. Ringwraith

    Ringwraith Well-Known Member

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    I think that was maybe the intent of "SJW", but almost immediately it took to calling almost anyone that.
    Sort of like how "feminist" is frequently some sort of slur from online use, despite its definition, when there are the extremist sorts out there, often called militant feminists, if I recall?
    You do have to come to a point and realise a word is ultimately just a poisoned chalice when can you replace it with something else that keeps the meaning you want but drops the baggage.
    It probably doesn't help I don't think I've ever seen "SJW" used in any justified situation without also being attached to something horrendous, so I was pretty sure the term was a write-off by anyone who had actual criticism instead of insults.
    It's basically name-calling anyway, which doesn't really invite much of a discussion.

    There's always knee-jerk reactionaries on both sides of every argument, heck, the internet has cultivated and kind of encouraged this behaviour, everyone sitting in their back-patting echo chambers.

    It might also not sit right with me that "Social Justice Warrior" meaning forcing an agenda when the words themselves mean fighting for equality as a concept? Which mostly just seems like a good thing? Especially considering the state of things as they are.
    I think it's just not very good at anything as a term, really.

    Anywho, that was waaaay off the beaten track. But I have nothing else to add as the game itself isn't really my jam.
     
  5. Clessy

    Clessy Member

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    When I say SJW I mean people who fight for the rights of people who dont even need to or have any relation to the topic there fight for. I myself am half black and nothing is more retarded than when I see well off white people trying to defend or talk about how I havent had the privilages they have. I hate the stupid "white privlage" mentality as its not a real thing and if anything that mentality just promots hate instead of actual diversity. Calling people out and forcing fake equality is not diversity. Its more about people just being unbarably unaccepting and pushing their agendas of equality in the most hateful way. Thats the whole issue with feminism and sjw and all these libreal push groups. They want all the rights and equality in the world as long as its not rights for anyone other than themselves.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  6. Ringwraith

    Ringwraith Well-Known Member

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    So men shouldn't care about women's rights by the same token?
    Although there's a difference between "caring" and "meddling without actually talking to anyone of said group" I suppose.
     
  7. Leon Tekashi

    Leon Tekashi Active Member

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    I can't help but feel that at this point, you guys are going in circles. Tom already explained that XSEED has nothing to do with what's going on with the Switch port and the cosmetic DLC as that's all on Marvelous themselves. Sure you can bring your complaints to XSEED so that they can bring them to Marvelous but at the end of the day, it is what it is. Personally, I find it rather ridiculous that SJW and human rights are being even brought up in this argument when it wasn't even necessary. It feels as though you're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.
     
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  8. Clessy

    Clessy Member

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    I dont wanan get to into rights and political views as these can always be heated however, I think men should be men. I think its up to people to make strides for themselves and not have other people push an agenda that doesnt represent them. I hate hearing about women inequality. Women make up 60% of the US workforce and 80% of college graduates are women. This fight for equality isnt a real thing anymore. If anything the balance is in their favor. Just like the wage gape. Hate hearing about. I've been a hiring manager before. Women get paid less because they have worse negoitation skills in general. They simply dont ask for money in most cases. Its not my job, or government regulation to fix these issues. Women need to stand up for themselves and earn it. Why would I as a company ever want to pay someone more for a job they're willing to do for less? How is that the most economically viable situation? Men are allowing themselves to be a under class to pander to women. Its because men in general have become so out of touch and are becoming socially ackward. They dont know how to talk to or be with women so they feel they have to pander for them to win affection.

    I feel like im just ranting but TL:DR No one inherently should have to stand up and fight for the rights of other as those people need to do it themselves if they want real merit behind it. Martin Luther King didnt have some white guy standing behind him pushing his agenda he did it himself and thats why it had merit.

    Yes it has gotten completely off topic.
     
  9. Wargamer

    Wargamer Member

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    Didn't you say that having a different offering with more content for the people that waited is the right thing to do and you always did it and will always try to that?
    It's odd to say you're not a big fan of something you've been doing for years.
    Oh well, guess we'll see how things will go with the next DLC filled game, Peach Beach Splash.
     
  10. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

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    That, for sure, is an excellent point. I've always felt that when an argument reaches a stage where one side has to resort to name-calling, whoever first resorted to name-calling did so because they can no longer argue their point effectively through rational debate -- essentially, because they lost.

    Not because they're wrong, necessarily. But because their debate skills are so poor that they don't know how to continue arguing respectfully and rationally.

    I also dislike that aspect of it, though I think I get where it originated. Like so much else in internet culture, it originated as an ironic/sarcastic spin on something good. Imagine Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons saying "social justice warrior," and it'll probably make more sense. ;)

    That argument is indeed totally separate, spawned by something Clessy said, and I'm hoping we can discuss it without things getting out of control. Emotions are starting to run hot, though, so I'd ask everyone to please remember: be respectful!

    I don't really know a better way to put this, Clessy, but... I'm afraid you're wrong!

    You're making the same mistake a lot of people do, in that you're basing your views of how society works entirely on your own personal experiences -- on the things you've seen, and the people you know. Because you haven't seen evidence of a wage gap where you live or in your line of work, for example, you're assuming it doesn't exist; because you know a lot of women who've graduated college, you assume most college graduates are women (and that statistic is especially off; women definitely do NOT make up 80% of college graduates, I can guarantee you that! The number today is close to but not quite 50% nationwide, and lower worldwide).

    That is basically the definition of privilege, in that you "have it good," so to speak, and thus the world as a whole is seen through that lens -- the people around you "have it good" too, so you just assume everyone else does as well.

    But the reality is more what you hear about on the news. Racism, sexism, and inequality absolutely DO exist, and run rampant throughout this country, and throughout the world. Sure, there are pockets where this isn't the case -- the game localization industry, for example, is largely free of wage gaps and unfair hiring practices, at least in the greater LA area -- but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

    Yes, people need to stand up for themselves in order to truly end racism, sexism, and inequality, but it can't JUST be people standing up for themselves, or else the problem will never truly go away. In order for an oppressed group to truly free themselves of oppression, the oppressor too must acknowledge his/her role, take responsibility, and make concessions -- otherwise, instead of social reform, you get riots.

    So as tempting as it may be to see the world through the lens of your own familiars, I would urge you instead to look up national and global statistics on these matters, and see if that changes your mind. Because I guarantee you, they're going to look a lot different than you think.

    Ah, I see what you're saying.

    I guess you're right; I just never really considered that to be the same thing, since DLC is such a minimal part of the gaming experience for me.

    I do indeed believe in having newly released versions of a game contain exclusive content in order to make them more appealing, though. Akiba's Trip, for example, had Toybox Mode, the visual editor, and streaming interactability added to its PS4 version, and I thought that was awesome -- really great new gameplay features to make the PS4 version a notable upgrade as opposed to just a straight port, giving fans of the PS3 and Vita versions a reason to be excited about it just as much as new fans.

    DLC just falls into a different category for me than adding whole new features, so I never really put it on the same level. But you are absolutely right; it is the same thing, when you get right down to it.

    I guess for me, when I hear that a new release on a new system has exclusive DLC costumes and such, I just shrug my shoulders, whereas when I hear that a new release on a new system has entirely new gameplay modes or entirely new content, I get excited.

    That is rather hypocritical of me to voice my support for one and then say I'm not a big fan of the other, so I apologize for any confusion there.

    Bear in mind, though, that those are just my personal opinions on these matters; I'm certainly aware that a lot of players dislike this practice in general (not just for DLC), and my opinions don't in any way influence what feedback we report to the developers, since we basically report EVERYTHING to them. So even though we may personally disagree on this, you may rest assured that your voice is still being heard. It's just up to the devs whether to listen to what you have to say, or whether to listen to other feedback, or just do their own thing altogether. They call the shots, in the end.

    -Tom
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
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  11. Theswweet

    Theswweet Active Member

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    Hey Tom, do you know if this will have a manual?
     
  12. Terro

    Terro Well-Known Member

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    What is even a Switch "manual"? The only place to put anything is a square spot above the cart. Has any release in any region put anything there yet? Even an advert?
     
  13. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

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    Honestly not sure. This being our first Switch game and all, we don't know yet just how insistent Nintendo is on their "no physical manuals" stance -- they definitely seem to discourage physical manuals, like Sony does with the Vita, but there has been at least one Switch game released stateside with a physical manual (Terro: it was Binding of Isaac), meaning they may be more open to the idea than Sony.

    We'll play it by ear and see what we can pull off.

    -Tom
     
  14. Theswweet

    Theswweet Active Member

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    I'd say it's more important that Switch games have manuals, simply because there aren't digital manuals like Vita had.
     
  15. Terro

    Terro Well-Known Member

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    Just looked it up and that's pretty neat! It's GBA-sized!
     
  16. Wargamer

    Wargamer Member

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    I was mostly quoting what you said about Senran DLC but it seems I just misunderstood your point back then. I agree that they're all in the same boat though.
    I'd say that having new features exclusive to an other system is a lot worse than DLC. Sure getting new stuff is great but buying the same game again full price with no possibility to use the save from the original version is really lame. You also need to own system to play the new content. For instance I'm not going to buy a Switch, ever and I'm pretty mad that I am Setsuna is getting exclusive content for it. I'm not getting a console just to replay every games I already finished with a bit of extra content. I may make an exception if it's a game I absolutely love and can't get enough like Fatal Inertia but there's only a handful of games I'd buy an updated version for and those IP are dead.

    Not having a definitive edition feels like a ripoff because you have to pay a lot of money, having new features that you can't use is just plain insulting. There are cases like Souls Sacrifice and Soul Sacrifice delta where you could import your save over from the original, it's still lame but it's a step in the right direction. I don't think EDF 4.1 or Akiba PS4 had cross save. I'm still excited for the new features and content of EDF 4.1 but no cross save mean I'll have to start over that 250 hours save file and I'd rather wait for EDF 5 at that point (or 5.1). I would have bought it instantly day-1 if I didn't already finished the original, just like I did for Onechanbara Z2 and Killer Is Dead (or pretty much any game before that fad of porting games with improvements started).

    On a side note, I doubt any jap devs will listen. They are too busy blaming smartphone users to consider that maybe their games don't sell because console player are fed up with the way they've been abused for more than a decade. They'll never accept the idea that maybe they are wrong. But that's just my idea as a baka gaijin.

    I'm also curious at what you will do with the price of the PS4 version of Fate/EXTELLA when the Switch version will come out. Right now the price is the same and makes no sense but I hope it'll change eventually since I always end up buying Tamsoft games. (Still hoping School Girl Zombie Hunter)
     
  17. MMXZero

    MMXZero New Member

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    Do we know the last 2 DLC costumes for the Switch version? I'm hoping Elizabeth Bathory’s Dragon Magician Girl costume is included.
     
  18. Battlechili

    Battlechili Member

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    Why would companies discourage physical manuals? More content its means more promising for the customer to buy, right?

    I've been increasingly annoyed at the lack of manuals coming with games these days and have been wondering why so many Vita games don't come with them.
     
  19. BachU8

    BachU8 New Member

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    I'm just dissapointed that this isn't coming to PC.
     
  20. strife.v1

    strife.v1 Member

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    Not putting Thesweet on blast but I love that this is the comment right after Tom's very well-written and professional sociopolitical post.

    "Aaanywaaaaaaaays, back to business. Manuals."​
     
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