Corpse Party Blood Drive English Ver. Translation Issues

Discussion in 'Corpse Party Series' started by Zaion, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. Zaion

    Zaion New Member

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    I've taken a look at both the Japanese version and the English translation, and I wanted to know why so many changes were made during the translation.

    The two most confusing ones for me were the changed latin of the witch Queen, which was completely different from the Japanese version, and the omission of Hinoe's censored in Chapter 8.

    Although I can understand the latter being changed to lower the rating, or to avoid potentia issues, why was the witch Queen dialogue changed? It made no sense in latin for either version, so it wasn't a correction of the latin, and it made the text no longer match up with the voice acting.

    There were a couple other changes I was uncomfortable with, but these two were the major ones. The first because it didn't make sense to change it, and the second because it removed a pretty big plot point.
     
  2. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

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    I... actually have no idea what you're talking about in chapter 8. We didn't remove anything in translation -- at least, not intentionally. Can you please elaborate as to what it is you believe was omitted?

    As for the Latin, that was simply because the original Latin was... really terrible. ;) It was the Latin equivalent of Engrish, and we made an effort to correct it into something that resembled actual Latin a little more closely. We didn't want to stray TOO far from the original, however, since those lines were voiced, so we sort of compromised between improving the grammar of the original dialogue and preserving the general structure of what was there.

    I'm also curious what the other changes are you were uncomfortable with, as we made every effort to keep our localization as close as possible to not just the meaning but the spirit of the original Japanese.

    I suspect one change that bothered you may have been "HOLOCAUST OUIJA" --> "INFERNAL COMMUNION", which is a change I personally struggled with but ultimately decided needed to be made in order to better reflect the intention of the Japanese. That particular change was made partially because we couldn't legally use the word "Ouija" in our text (due to copyright issues), and "HOLOCAUST SPIRIT BOARD" simply doesn't have the same ring to it -- but also because the use of "holocaust" in the Japanese was confirmed to be referencing the seldom-used dictionary definition of the word, meaning an absolutely destructive inferno... yet in natural English, the word has become completely inseparable from its WWII usage, so using the same English in our version would've conveyed a vastly different idea than what the original writers intended. After much deliberation, "INFERNAL COMMUNION" was chosen as an equivalent substitute.

    -Tom
     
  3. JackkelDragon

    JackkelDragon New Member

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    I can't speak for Zaion since I don't know enough Japanese to know what's being said in that part of the Japanese copy of Blood Drive I own, but I feel like I might have an idea from some summaries I read before the English release:
    From what I read, during Chapter 08 Misuto mentions Hinoe's censored to Ayumi when talking about how Hinoe was too kind for her own good, and this gets brought up again in Extra Chapter 6. In the English version, Hinoe's censored is only indirectly mentioned in Extra Chapter 6.
     
  4. Zaion

    Zaion New Member

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    I was actually fine with that translation. However, Misuto's entire speech about his parents, Hinoe, and his motivations was pretty mangled. Here's the part that was about what happened to Hinoe in Japanese, your translation, and my translation.

    M = Misuto, S = Ayumi, A = Aiko, N = Narrator, H = Hinoe

    [​IMG]

    M: … Compassion for others is strictly the domain of superior humans.
    M: But because they forgive everyone, without exception… and they don’t understand what it means to question or doubt…
    M: … they get assaulted, for no other reason than because people are naturally malicious!
    S: …?!
    S: This was the first time I’d ever hear of my sister being… naive, I guess? And I definitely had trouble believing it.
    S: All I could remember were the smiles. And those were as genuine as could be.
    S: … But behind them, there may have been hidden wounds caused by people relentlessly taking advantage of her gentle nature.
    M: … And that sweet, kindly Hinoe is no longer in this world.
    M: Rumor has it she died to save a greedy butthole who was meddling in matters she couldn’t possibly understand…
    M: How much does that poor girl have to sacrifice?! How much pain must a superior human being like her be subjected to?!

    M: It takes an amazing person to be able to think about others.
    M: But, because she forgave people endlessly- -because she didn’t know how to doubt people… …!
    M: Meaninglessly, just ‘cuz of bad luck- -She ends up getting r ped!
    S: -- ?!
    N: It was the first time she heard this… … Ayumi doubts her own ears.
    N: Hinoe’s smile bubbles up, filling Ayumi’s heart.
    N: Behind that flawless smiles, had she forgiven some unknowable scar?
    M: … And that Hinoe is no longer in this world.
    M: I heard… that she died due to the spell you cast in order to save some worthless ignorant idiot.
    M: Just how much does she need to sacrifice! An amazing person like that!

    As you can see, there was no mention of naievte in the Japanese, and although you do translate 強姦 as assault, the parts that come later obscure what sort of assault Hinoe suffered.

    The other differences in Misuto's speech, such as his description of what happened to his parents, and himself were also a little off, but this particular part lost the original's entire meaning. Also, from watching LPers play the game, most don't realize just what happened to Hinoe and why Ayumi was so shocked about what Misuto said.
     
  5. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

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    I suspected that's what was being suggested there, but the way it's phrased in the Japanese, it's kind of open to interpretation.
    Not that Misuto mentions r*pe, mind you, but that he's specifically saying Hinoe WAS r*ped. IIRC, he's speaking in general terms during that conversation, talking about "people like Hinoe," and he brings up that consequence as an example of what can happen to such people. Which would be pretty damning testimony if anyone else were speaking, but because this is Misuto talking, it might just be his own tendency toward the dramatic and shocking.

    I did specifically choose the word "assault" there, however, because I figured if Misuto WAS talking about Hinoe, he wouldn't come right out and say the word "r*pe," but kind of... sugar-coat it, as a slight nod to his feelings for her.

    I don't know why I went with "naive" in editing, though. That must've just been exhaustion on my part or something.

    This was definitely not something that was intentionally censored. May have been a bad localization call on my part, but it was done to make his dialogue seem more realistic and more in keeping with his personality.

    -Tom
     
  6. Zaion

    Zaion New Member

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    There are a couple issues with that.

    The first thing you're missing is the concept of implied subjects. Although technically not good English, or Japanese for that matter, implied subjects occurr in spoken language all the time. Misuto is talking about Hinoe for the majority of that segment, and although the conversation switches to talks about the concept of self-sacrifice he is merely using that to stress his point that Hinoe was too good for her own sake.

    The second is the word gou kan, which is written as "strong sexual deviation". Together, the only definition it has is r*pe, and not assault. Although some dictionaries have the definition "criminal assault" under gou kan zai or "strong sexual deviation crime" the only time that would be used is if there was a sexual element to the assault. Therefore, if Misuto is referring to general concepts about superior people, then he is saying that all superior people get r*ped due to being too forgiving or gentle. This seems to be a strange conclusion to reach, even for Misuto.

    Furthermore, if he is still talking about the general concept of superior people, it makes no sense that Ayumi thinks of Hinoe specifically, and doubt what Misuto is saying about her, as he would not be talking specifically about Hinoe in that situation.

    To illustrate the first point, I've taken a larger segment of the text before the part I quoted earlier in order to show how the subject "Hinoe" is being implied in the latter half. As always, Japanese, XSEED's translation, my translation. I have a couple of asterisks next to some words, explaining why they are like that.
    [​IMG]

    M: Despite how short a time we had together, I thought of her as a real partner in crime. She was my companion…
    M: And as someone with no relatives, that was the only time I ever really felt like I… loved another human being.
    M: I’ve never met a single other person who had such an excess of kindness and forgiveness in her heart. And I doubt I ever will again.
    S: …!
    S: My eyes widened.
    S: And Misuto’s eyes… became more distant. When he spoke about Hinoe, it’s like he was staring into the past. His whole facial expression reflected such incredible loneliness.
    S: So, you and my Sis were…
    M: …Still. Sacrificing yourself to save someone else is bullpoop. It’s hypocrisy, pure and simple!
    M: Hurting yourself, for any reason, just winds up hurting everyone else around you.
    M: Would you die in place of someone who’s trying to commit suicide? Your family would be sick with grief! And that doesn’t seem right, does it?!
    S: …
    S: I couldn’t answer.
    S: I’d been repenting the actions that led to my sister’s death this whole time, and really couldn’t argue with what Misuto was telling me.
    M: … Compassion for others is strictly the domain of superior humans.
    M: But because they forgive everyone, without exception… and they don’t understand what it means to question or doubt…
    M: … they get assaulted, for no other reason than because people are naturally malicious!
    S: …?!
    S: This was the first time I’d ever hear of my sister being… naïve, I guess? And I definitely had trouble believing it.
    S: All I could remember were the smiles. And those were as genuine as could be.
    S: … But behind them, there may have been hidden wounds caused by people relentlessly taking advantage of her gentle nature.
    M: … And that sweet, kindly Hinoe is no longer in this world.
    M: Rumor has it she died to save a greedy butthole who was meddling in matters she couldn’t possibly understand…
    M: How much does that poor girl have to sacrifice?! How much pain must a superior human being like her be subjected to?!

    M: Even though it wasn’t long, Hinoe and me were together, and I even thought of her as a spouse*.
    M: From then and from now, that was the only time the orphaned me ever loved a person…
    M: I will probably* never see a person with that much kindness or mercy ever again.
    S: - -
    N: Ayumi’s eyes widen.
    N: Misuto’s eyes were surprisingly filled with sorrow as he talked about Hinoe.
    S: You and my sister were…
    M: … But, still. Saving someone else by sacrificing yourself is hypocritical.
    M: Hurting yourself means hurting the people around you.
    M: Let’s say you save a suicide victim by taking their place, and made your own family cry. Is that right?
    S: - -
    N: Ayumi cannot reply.
    N: Only thoughts of regret come to mind when thinking of her sister who disappeared in front of her.
    M: It takes an amazing person to be able to think about others.
    M: But, because she forgave people endlessly- -because she didn’t know how to doubt people… …!
    M: Meaninglessly, just ‘cuz of bad luck- -She ends up getting r*ped!
    S: - -?!
    N: It was the first time she heard this… … Ayumi doubts her own ears.
    N: Hinoe’s smile bubbles up, filling Ayumi’s heart.
    N: Behind that flawless smiles, had she forgiven some unknowable scar?
    M: … And that Hinoe is no longer in this world.
    M: I heard… that she died due to the spell you cast in order to save some worthless ignorant idiot.
    M: Just how much does she need to sacrifice! An amazing person like that!

    spouse* = although hanryo is translated as companion, it is a term that was used for men marrying into the wife's family, and was adapted to refer to both men and women in modernt times. As companion is a euphemism used to describe a husband or wife, using spouse is probably the best way to translate it as it shows Misuto's romantic intentions towards Hinoe, and how far he was willing to take those emotions.

    probably* = Misuto says darou at the end of that sentence, which makes his statement either unsure or suppositional. That is why probably is used instead of making his sentence a statement.

    As you can see, the part where he stops talking about Hinoe is when he is illustarting how her actions are harmful, even though they are kind, and because of that she ended up getting r*ped.

    Additionally, as Misuto has proven to be both rude, crude, and a user of rather colorful language, him sugar coating the issue with Hinoe alone seems out of character.
    Although he did love Hinoe, we've seen in Ex-Chapter 6 that he's not above insulting her and isn't overly polite towards her either.
     
  7. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, but this was something that actually affected him emotionally -- and that being the case, it seemed like something he would sugar-coat, in spite of himself.

    At least, that's what was going through my head during editing.

    That scene probably could've been edited better, but it is what it is. The decisions I made for it seemed like good ones at the time, and I'm sorry if they didn't come across as clearly as I'd assumed they would.
    FWIW, I definitely assumed everyone playing through that scene would've picked up on the fact that when Misuto said "assault," he was specifically referring to sexual assault. That scene was even captured for the ESRB, under the assumption that this would be the case. This is the first I've heard of anyone NOT picking up on that, but based on your breakdown of the scene, I can understand why some people wouldn't, and I take full responsibility for obscuring its meaning through my editing.

    -Tom
     
  8. Zaion

    Zaion New Member

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    Another thing I would like to ask was why was the decision made to change most of the 3rd person narrative to a 1st person?

    I've talked about this with others, and they tell me that it makes things more dramatic by putting the narrative in 1st person. However, I argue that it confuses what is going on as it imparts knowledge that only the narrator knows to those characters. This was particularly true in the last scene of Blood Drive.
    In the original, it was unknown whether Ayumi was aware of her state or not, but by putting it in 1st person you changed that open ended situation into single meaning that never existed.
     
  9. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

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    That one's easy: Because it's more in keeping with the style of writing used in the previous Corpse Party games.

    I don't know if someone different was responsible for the script in Blood Drive, but it really wasn't as well-written a game as Corpse Party and Corpse Party: Book of Shadows, and there was a very noticeable stylistic shift that felt kind of jarring. So in editing, I tried to adapt the same voice I'd used in the previous titles for consistency, so the three games could be played back-to-back as a single unified narrative.

    I'm sorry if you felt the meaning was changed during the final scene because of this -- I don't personally think this alteration in style had any effect on the meaning or impact of any scenes at all. But this was a localization decision on my part which, again, I take full responsibility for -- though in this case, I definitely stand behind it 100%.

    -Tom
     
  10. RixiaIsMyWaifu

    RixiaIsMyWaifu New Member

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    Whereas I think it's more jarring for characters to narrate things outside of their perspectives. It's especially weird when you have events like Ayumi bringing up the movement of a statue while mentioning she isn't the one seeing it, or when Kuon is watching a news broadcast and it's written as narrated by Satoshi even though he's not even in the same building. The former could have been dealt with just by altering the text, but it's stuff like the latter that honestly just makes it seem like it's written in first-person for the sake of it.
     
  11. Zaion

    Zaion New Member

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    @-Tom

    I'm going to assume that you meant you personally felt that the script was less well written than previous games, because I didn't feel there were any significant issues with the original in particular. Although it is true that some of the death descriptions were less dramatic due to the third person narrative, I don't think it warranted the total conversion of every narration to the 1st person. This may be a personal take on translation, but I believe that the job of a translator is to convey the meaning of the original with as little embelishment or loss as possible.

    Also, I thought it was Kedouin who was the script writer of Blood Drive as I vaguely remember him replying to interviews on Blood Drive in a magazine about what he wanted his readers to feel during the game for the characters.

    If it was Kedouin, who's been changing and developing as a writer as he goes along, was it really necessary to change everything, and did you get his permission to do so?

    The reason I say this is that I feel that a little too much artistic lisence was taken during the translation, and as a writer I would be at the very least annoyed had that happened to me. Admittedly this is a mater of personal feelings which doesn't really matter in the terms of marketing or business, but reading through the English of Blood Drive was less appealing to me than the Japanese even if it was in the 3rd person at times.
     
  12. JackkelDragon

    JackkelDragon New Member

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    Not sure how much this will help the discussion, but I have some information on who might have written what in the Corpse Party games based on credits lists and other things I've picked up over following Corpse Party information (though some of my info for everything besides BC and BD needs to be cross-referenced by people who know where the full information is).

    BloodCovered, as far as I can tell, was planned by Makoto Kedouin and Sakuya Kamishiro, and Kedwin wrote most of the event script from what I understand. Since BR has other writers listed in the credits, I'm assuming the new scenes and extra chapters were written by them.

    Book of Shadows was again planned by Kedwin (not sure if anyone else was involved), who also wrote the scripts for Seal, Tooth, and (maybe) BloodDrive. The other chapters had their scripts written by other writers (one of which was apparently a well-known author in Japan).

    2U was similar to Book of Shadows, but I don't know who wrote which chapters.

    Blood Drive's credits (taken from the manual) lists Kedwin, Kamishiro, and Hinako Meguri for the scenario planning, while the event scripts were written by 9-10 other writers.

    Bringing this back on-topic, it's possible that the apparent difference in writing styles between BC/BoS and BD is due to the fact that Blood Drive was written by a number of different writers under Kedwin's supervision, rather than Kedwin himself or by Kamishiro. (I also personally pray this is the reason that the date given for Ayumi's investigation in Chapter 00 is so wildly incorrect in both the Japanese and English versions of the game. Two and a half months after October 27-28th cannot be November 11th while using the Gregorian Calendar.)
     
  13. Zaion

    Zaion New Member

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    I took a look at the Japanese credits, and the only thing relating to Chapters I could see was the heading "Event Script" which is different to the "Script Writers" in Book of Shadows. Assuming that this is what you meant, the term is referring, not to the dialogue or the text in the game, but the scripts that ocurred in the games themselves. i.e. these are the people who wrote out how people would interact with object in the form of "inspect object A, text B pops up.", so they supposedly didn't write anything in terms of story, but were the ones putting the material Kedouin and co. were writing into the correct places.

    The people who actually wrote the scenarios are listed under the label "Scenario" in the credits this time.

    I remember Book of Shadows being more of a collaboration, but Blood Drive doesn't seem to be like that.

    Additionally, going back to the change in person for the narrative voice, the change in person seems to have given some people the idea that the entirety of Blood Drive was merely Ayumi recounting the events from her comatose state. This is largely due to the fact that it is Ayumi's voicing speaking in the past tense during the narration.

    Although I feel I am getting closer to winging about it that anything, and it is not my intent to attack anyone, I do have to say that I don't feel like I've read the same story after having read both the English Blood Drive and the Japanese Blood Drive. This may be your intention in order to make it more appealing for a western market, but as someone who enjoys both western and Japanese literature, I have to say I preferred the Japanese version of Blood Drive more than the English one.
     
  14. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

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    Changing the atmosphere of the game was certainly not my intention, and I didn't personally feel the first-person viewpoint conveyed anything different than the third-person viewpoint -- half of the first-person narrative in all three Corpse Party games we've translated to date, after all, contain characters detailing their own gruesome deaths, or describing scenes they clearly weren't present to witness. The first-person viewpoint was provided, as best as I can tell, to add more personal connection to the events that were unfolding -- it was a literary stylistic choice to draw in the reader, and nothing more.

    When this was suddenly dropped in Blood Drive, I found it immensely jarring, as it suddenly went from these very detailed first-person descriptions to... basically, nothing more than simple stage directions. It came across as somehow incomplete to me, and I felt that by bringing it closer to the previous titles, I was making the Japanese come across the way I believed it was meant to be experienced in the first place -- I was giving it the impact it was meant to have, as opposed to what felt to me like straightforward descriptions with almost no impact at all.

    Choosing how to edit a game is always the hardest thing, however, and if you feel I made the wrong choice, I'm very sorry. I still stand by the choice I made, though, as I believe a more direct translation would've hurt the narrative and caused it to have significantly less impact and less connection with the player than what was (IMHO) clearly intended.

    Reading the intentions of the original writers and conveying those intentions in English as naturally as possible is part of our jobs as localizers, and it's a part of our jobs that I take very seriously (thus my staunch anti-censorship stance)... but it's the most difficult part of our jobs, barnone, as one person's interpretation can easily differ from another's. I do not consider Blood Drive to be one of my best edits by any means, largely because I honestly didn't like Blood Drive as much as either of its predecessors that I worked on (I feel the hopeless horror atmosphere and the almost-believability that made the previous games so creepy has been largely removed, replaced instead with large quantities of supernatural anime tropes and high action... all of which are handled well, but none of which are anywhere near as appealing to me as the events in BloodCovered or Book of Shadows, and none of which really feel like Corpse Party to me either; ultimately, I suppose if I had to describe it simply, I'd say that Blood Drive is lacking a certain "subtlety" that I felt was a defining trait of the series up to that point) -- but I tried my best to "get in the writers' heads" during my edits, just as I did with the previous games. I tried to get the right voice for each character, the right voice for the narration, and the right tone overall to make it an experience that not only lived up to the original Japanese, but to the rest of the series too.

    I feel I succeeded, but if you feel I failed, I am genuinely sorry. They can't all be winners, I suppose, and perhaps my misgivings about Blood Drive as a Corpse Party title tainted my ability to see the qualities that those who hold the game in high regard would've been better able to discern.

    -Tom
     
  15. Zaion

    Zaion New Member

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    Perhaps this is because I knew about Dead Patient, Project DOLLIES, CEMETERY, 2U, and Doll's Fall as well as the other "canon" games before I experienced Blood Drive, but I felt that it opened up the world of Corpse Party through its story. The personal tragedy that befell Ayumi and her friends opened up and connected to all these other things that GrisGris had made, linking them together and providing explanations for how some of the rules of the Corpse Party-verse worked.

    Additionally, there are parts where I felt there was no other choice but to do the 3rd person narration. For example, the scene where Ayumi is talking to Misuto has her describing her eyes widening in shock, but, in that situation, you wouldn't really be thinking that. You'd be in shock and that sort of shock is difficult to portray in a realistic first person narrative. Admittedly describing your own death is also an unrealistic first person narrative, but writing out shocking moments in the 3rd person does allow the usage of physical imagery describing one's reaction to it without making the person seem to be voicing their every action in their head. It is true that you can replicate the effect without having to resort to using the 3rd person, but if you are constantly having a person responding to shocks, as was the case of the majority of Blood Drive due to the number of twists it had, there are ony so many ways you can have their internal voice stutter over and over again before it starts to get old. This is especially true when the reader already knows certain things or when mixed with dramatic irony as the reader already knows certain facts, and having to read through a person make sense of them can get annoying.

    I do admit this is largely speculation as to why the 3rd person narrative was used in Blood Drive, but having tried out different horror writing styles, I admit that I ran into the problem i noted above. I stuck with the first person though, since I didn't have plot twists ocurring in every chapter; unlike Blood Drive.

    But, I digress. I guess this is the point we agree to disagree, since you felt that Blood Drive was intended to have a first person narrative while I felt that it using the 3rd person was an issue of literary necessity. I enjoyed it with the 3rd person since it allowed a more general view of things, However, you felt it lacked emotional depth. I've always felt the voice acting was what really got the emotional tug, especially the screams rather than the narration. One of my favourite scenes in Book of Shadows is most emotional because of the way Yoshiki reacts to what he is seeing rather than his super detailed description of it. In fact, besides the dialogue there is no hint to what he is looking at all.
     
  16. Ryos

    Ryos Active Member

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    A lot of this seems to go to the heart of the purpose of localization and there's always going to be debate about carrying out the intent of the original script as it was intended.

    Personally, I tend to like having consistency because the style used in the first game (and carried over into sequels for the localization) appeals to me more but I can certainly understand the opposite perspective. It reminds me a lot of the old schism in Shadow Hearts fans with the Koudelka/SH tone compared to SH 2/3 as the creative vision went in a drastically different direction. In that case I liked the very different direction but there was simply no way to try and localize the latter SH games in the same sort of way as the first couple games with the nearly 180 degree change.
     
  17. Zaion

    Zaion New Member

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    I find that concept odd, since the people who were designing and writing everything did end up going with the change when producing the game for their main market in Japan. In other words, the people who have invested the most amount of time and effort into the game in order to get it to sell well thought that the change was a good idea. Although many translators seem to think continuity is important, I fear changing the writers original intentions in the effort to do so results in more issues than it solves.

    The fact that some people think; Ayumi is trapped in the Nirvana at the end, Yoshie created the Nirvana de novo, that the story of Blood Drive is told from Ayumi's comatose perspective, the loss of the mention of Hinoe's r*pe and the added line on naiveness all make me think that it would have been better to translate the narrative of Blood Drive as it was with as little embelishemnt is possible.

    As it is unlikely we'll ever be able to compare which version of Blood Drive did better, I can only say that out of the two I preferred the Japanese version.

    Furthermore, although this is a tangent, I feel that serieses should develop with their audience as they go along. The change in tone of a story may be due to the fact that the game and its fan base has aged a little more, allowing more controversial topics to pop up and harder questions to be asked. This is part of the reason I disliked the Harry Potter series due to the lack of major changes between books. Every year the characters end up dealing with the same or similar problem, and largely the same question. Although my memory is vague since it's been a while since I've read them, I remember that discussions with others often resulted in the same shared feeling that no matter how many books they went through it was always a children's book even though the characters were nearing young adults.

    The fact that Blood Drive switched from 1st person to 3rd person in Blood Drive may have been an attempt to show the opening up of the Corpse Party world. It is no longer the personal tragedy of the Kisaragi crew, but a more overarching event that has links that occurr before and after the events of Heavenly Host.

    e.g. the way it links in
    The Curse of the Shinozaki
    Magari's involvement from Project Dollies (which was the Drama CD released with Book of Shadows and set before Blood Covered)
    The events of the novella Corpse Party 0 CEMETERY: The Genesis of Ars Moriendi
    Corpse Party -The Anthology- Sachiko's Game of Love <3 Hysteric Birthday 2U
    All the endings and events in both Blood Covered and Book of Shadows
    Corpse Party 2: Dead Patient
    Doll's Fall
    etc.
    was well done in my opinion, and this larger world view was partially allowed because of the 3rd person narrative taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture.

    This does mean that Corpse Party: Blood Drive was, quite frankly, hideously designed due to the sheer number of references it had to do with material that was outside of its own content as well as the two main games, and it did receive quite low review scores precisely because of its dependence on people knowing other material besides itself.

    However, since the main audience of Blood Drive was always going to be its fans and the people wanting closure to the story, the removal of some of these things due to the localization decreased my enjoyment of it quite a lot.

    I do apologize at repeating that I didn't like the English translation, but with nothing else to go on but my personal reaction and the reactions of those who've I've discussed both version of the game with, it is pretty much the only standard I have when discussing whether the localization calls were good or not. I imagine a re-translation in an effort to compare and contrast would be out of the question so long after Blood Drive's release, not to mention that it would end up as a "my word against your word" in regards to accuracy.
     
  18. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

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    I think that's a major part of why Blood Drive is my least favorite Corpse Party title: the series, to me, was always a personal tragedy tale centered around the Kisaragi students, and I kind of feel it really should've stayed that way. Its story is good for what it is, but what it is just... doesn't feel like Corpse Party to me. I was the one at XSEED who pushed to have us work on this series in the first place, but I feel like if this (or a similar game) were my first experience with it, I may not have made that push.

    As I said above, it's entirely possible this colored my perception and led to me making localization decisions with which you disagree, and it's something I'll definitely be more cognizant of in the future. I certainly do have a tendency to work much better with scripts I find myself more drawn to -- like the original Corpse Party, Ys Origin, Akiba's Trip, Brandish, and the upcoming Return to PopoloCrois -- but to be a truly effective localization specialist, I need to be able to give the same objective eye to every game I'm assigned, whether or not I'm personally drawn to it.

    I tried very hard to do just that with Corpse Party: Blood Drive, and I still don't entirely agree with your views on it, but I respect that your views come from a passion for the series that outclasses mine by quite a bit, so all I can really do is promise you that we'll make more of an effort to consider concerns of this nature in our future projects. And to apologize once again for making the game less enjoyable for you in its English incarnation.

    -Tom
     
  19. Zaion

    Zaion New Member

    Messages:
    12
    I'm sorry for bringing this back out of the depth, but what happened with this segment?

    [​IMG]
    O: HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!!
    S: &hellip;?! Who was that?
    S: Out of the blue, a girl I&rsquo;d never seen before now stood in the creature&rsquo;s path. She was wearing uniquely-designed green pins in her hair.
    S: Looking more closely, her body had a slight green sheen to it and was partially translucent.
    O: You stupid dog! What do you think you&rsquo;re doing?!
    I: Gwarrrrrr&hellip;!
    A: &hellip; Sa&hellip;yaka&hellip;?
    S: The rampaging Inumaru showed no signs of having comprehended Sayaka&rsquo;s words.
    O: Did you really come HERE looking for me? I mean&hellip; do you even have a brain in that blockhead of yours?! You&rsquo;re such an idiot! You should know better, you dumb mutt!
    I: Grr&hellip;
    S: Now she seemed to have gotten through to him. He stopped biting down on Aiko, releasing his grip ever-so-slightly.
    O: You really are just a pathetic mongrel. How could you let yourself turn into something like that?!
    S: Sayaka&rsquo;s tone had a slight waver to it, belying her harshness.
    S: But her berating of Inumaru was working. His eyes were beginning to well up with tears.
    O: How do you not understand that you have a perfectly suitable girl here already? Am I speaking with an accent or something?! Damned bone-headed pooch!
    I: &hellip;
    S: He was full-on bawling now, and nothing seemed like it could slow his tears.
    I: Grrr&hellip;!
    O: You&rsquo;re just&hellip; such a dumbass&hellip;
    O: Rnnnng! *sob* &hellip; This is no one&rsquo;s fault, you know!
    O: No one could&rsquo;ve known this would happen! So don&rsquo;t blame Aiko&hellip; okay? Do you understand?
    S: She was less reassuring him, and more commanding him.
    S: Inumaru released Aiko from his mouth and became very quiet.
    O: HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!!
    S: ?! &hellip; &hellip; Who is that?
    N: Suddenly, a girl with a hairpin a peculiar shade of green stood before Inumaru&rsquo;s eyes.
    N: Looking closer, her body glowed white, and appeared transparent&hellip;
    O: You stupid dog! What&rsquo;re you doing!
    I: Gwarrrrrrr&hellip;!
    A: &hellip; Sa&hellip; yaka&hellip;?
    N: Rampaging, Inumaru doesn&rsquo;t react to Sayaka&rsquo;s words.
    O: Following me aaaaaaaall the way to a place like this! Do you even have a brain? You&rsquo;re really stupid! Seriously stupid! Stupid dog!
    I: Grr&hellip; &hellip;.
    N: Inumaru&rsquo;s movements stop.
    O: You&rsquo;re a stupid dog! Turning into something like that
    N: Sayaka&rsquo;s tone begins to merge with tears.
    N: At the same time, with every "Stupid Dog" she say&hellip; a tear spills out of Inumaru&rsquo;s eyes.
    OI: Just how many times do I need to tell you... there's a more suitable woman for you out there! You stupid dog!
    O: &hellip; ... &hellip; &hellip;
    N: Inumaru&rsquo;s tears overflow, one after the other endlessly.
    I: Grrr&hellip; &hellip;!
    O: You&rsquo;re really&hellip; &hellip; Stupid&hellip; &hellip;
    O: Rnnnng&hellip; &hellip;ugh!Aghaaaaa&hellip; &hellip;! &hellip; &hellip;All this, no one&rsquo;s to blame for it you know!
    O: There's no way to predict this! Forgive Aiko! Understand?
    N: Crying, Sayaka beseeches him.
    N: Inumaru releases Aiko&rsquo;s neck from his mouth, and becomes quiet.

    Besides the places where the Japanese was changed to mirror the images shown, (e.g. glowed white > slight green shade), and the additions done when changing the narrator, I don't understand why you thought Sayaka was talking about herself when she said "there's a more suitable woman for you". Sayaka has rejected Inumaru's affection this entire time, and part of the reasoning for this is revealed in both CEMETERY and Ex-chapter 04.

    Sayaka believes physical attractiveness translates into popularity. This is why she cannot understand why Aiko is such a loner even though she is a "beautiful girl". This comes from her past as an unpopular girl which was shown in CEMETERY. Inumaru was already attracted to her at that time, and it is because she changed herself that she doesn't feel like she deserves Inumaru's affection. This is also why Inumaru states that he will love Sayaka no matter what she becomes, whether it is an old granny or an elementary school student.

    The fact that you changed it so that she is referring to herself when she is saying "a suitable woman" removed that entire sub-plot, and also removed that Sayaka's reactions weren't based from only him being annoying, but a feeling of unworthiness for his affection.

    Admittedly, you've already said you'll be looking out for these issues in the future, but I felt that there were some things you might want to pay particular attention to.

    "No one could&rsquo;ve known this would happen!"
    "uniquely-designed green pins"
    "But her berating of Inumaru was working. His eyes were beginning to well up with tears."
    "She was less reassuring him, and more commanding him."

    "No one could&rsquo;ve known this would happen!"

    Sayaka makes no mention of knowing or even the subject of "no one". In this case, she says there's no "reason = wake" that anyone could "predict = yosoku" this. Although it seems trivial, word choice is one of the ways a character or even the narrator can stress or imply certain things. This is probably even more important for English as word choice can also be used to imply a character's speech pattern, mannerisms, upbringing, etc. Japanese has the ability to add endings or use a different variety of helper verbs to a sentence in order to make a character sound rough, but English doesn't have that same function. Therefore, it is really important to nail what words are being used by the writer, especially when it comes down to dialouge. Even the usage of contraction such as "what's" for "what is" or "you're" and "you are" can be important in setting up a character.

    "uniquely-designed green pins"

    You added in the word "designed" in order to swap the adjectives "peculiarly/uniquely/characteristically" from the color green to the hairpin itself. I'm sorry to say, but this felt like a rather bizarre error as all that was necessary was to translate what the text said in this case without any additions. True, describing a shade of green as peculiar or characteristic is still strange in Japanese, but adding in things to make them sound better runs the risk of removing or adding things.

    "But her berating of Inumaru was working. His eyes were beginning to well up with tears."

    I felt this was quite problematic, because it removed the emotional weight of the scene.

    S: Sayaka&rsquo;s tone had a slight waver to it, belying her harshness.
    S: But her berating of Inumaru was working. His eyes were beginning to well up with tears.

    N: Sayaka&rsquo;s tone begins to merge with tears.
    N: At the same time, with every "Stupid Dog" she say&hellip; a tear spills out of Inumaru&rsquo;s eyes.

    "Stupid dog" was what Sayaka called Inumaru every day. It was pretty much her nickname for him. Your translation changed that to her berating him bringing him to tears. In the original, it was the fact that Inumaru was hearing Sayaka calling him again after searching for her the entire game that was bringing him to tears. In your translation, although it could be that her yelling at him is making him feel happy as he can hear Sayaka again, it feels as if her insults are actually hurting him as it is her berating that is bringing him to tears.

    Perhaps this is because I've read so much of Corpse Party already, but I feel a more literal translation that followed the original terminology used instead of replacing "dog" with "mongrel" at times would have still captured those emotions without prior knowledge of what Sayaka's nickname for Inumaru was.

    "She was less reassuring him, and more commanding him."

    The term the narrator used was "uttaeru", which means appeals, and also means "to sue" and "to make a statement to attract sympathy from others". In this case, the usage of that word shows that Sayaka is not in power of the situation. Although she is ordering him, the tone of voice she is using is closer to that of a request. The narration that her statement was an appeal places the weight off the decision of forgiving Aiko on Inumaru.
     
  20. Wyrdwad

    Wyrdwad Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,158
    Location:
    Celceta
    I mean, obviously either the translator or I misinterpreted the scene. Neither of us has any familiarity with Cemetery (and I know I certainly wasn't aware that "stupid dog" was a recurring nickname), which is probably part of it, but the rest is simply due to plain old misinterpretation of the Japanese.

    The white --> green thing is weird, though. Dunno if that was the original translator or me, but that's definitely something I should've caught in editing either way. I wonder if we were sent old text or something? Because some of these errors seem really peculiar and oddly specific.

    Anyway, once again, sorry! We did our best.

    -Tom
     

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