Ask Us About Kiseki

Discussion in 'The Legend of Heroes Series' started by omgfloofy, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. nivorae

    nivorae New Member

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    Location:
    Belgium
    following Yotakas SC overview

    1. do we learn more about cassius' past, how he learned what he knows, he does seem having a far more extensive knowledge then there appears to be right now
    2. the fact Leonhardt inhabited Kernvitter, does this imply that The Leader intented him to become part of the Angis opposed to a Legion, or that he saw Leonhardt more as one of his better members, like Campanella
    3. Do we learn more about Campanella in later games, he seems to be special (maybe a cyborg?)?
    4. if estelle and joshua have tracked down renne and start to heavily focus on ouroboros again, coumd this mean they get a way more apparent role again?

    sorry for all the questions, especially if they happen to be answered in later games
     
  2. overthebarrier

    overthebarrier New Member

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    254
    1
    We actually don't know much about Cassius except that he was trained by Yun Kafai and gave up his sword after his 'failure' in the Hundred Days War. I don't actually think there's more to Cassius than what we've seen. This is a setting where being good at martial arts makes you not just skilled but capable of superhuman feats.

    I do think we will see more about Yun Kafai and what it means to attain the <<Reason>> when you reach the pinnacle of that school of swordsmanship.

    2
    I read that as the Leader predicting Weissman's eventual defection and preparing a countermeasure. Loewe might have hit Anguis level - even Arianrhod acknowledged his strength - but after SC, that's a little... difficult.

    3
    Nope. Campanella is still a mystery. The most we get is in SC when Joshua notes that Campanella doesn't seem to age and in Ao where he says he's about Joshua's level (mind you, I think he's lying.) He has an affinity for illusion arts and borrows some of Lucciola's shikigami at one point.
    4
    Estelle and Joshua have a significant cameo in Zero and pop up again in Ao to help out. (Falcom said in an interview that they weren't planning their visit in Ao, but it would have been out-of-character for Estelle to stay home in that situation.)
     
  3. Reta

    Reta New Member

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    35
    Alright, I have a question.

    Do we ever learn the identity of the Master? I don't want specifics; just a yes or no.
     
  4. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,557
    We have theories but no, we haven't yet.
     
  5. omgfloofy

    omgfloofy Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    I'm sorry. The first thing that came to mind was this:
    [​IMG]

    (It's not a spoiler really. But the image reveals what the question was. So keeping it under spoiler tags still.)

    In other words, as a Doctor Who fan, I can't get over using 'The Master' when talking about the Leader. I will always end up thinking of John Simm, Eric Robers, Roger Delgado, etc etc. lol
     
  6. Slyef

    Slyef New Member

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    13
    So... New to the boards (Hi everyone !), very interested in the series and I have a few questions.

    Considering that there's already an awesome summary of SC (and we may get one of the Third too!)
    I'll just skip the questions to Zero/Ao/Sen ! (and some speculation as well...)


    -Zero/Ao Spoiler, about the Diary and the fragments

    Could someone explain what's the purpose of Gnosis, the role of Flomea and their connection to <D> and the Illusionary Beasts ?

    -Ao Spoilers

    1. What does Osborne tell us, when we get to talk to him at the Orkis Tower?

    2. The Red Constellation : I know these guys are mercenaries, but at the beginning they seem to be hired by the Empire, and they end up working for Mariabell, what's with the change? Is Randy possibly being a new leader the main factor here?


    3. Kirika.. when did you stop working for the Bracer's Guid? (Or maybe she still does?)

    4. Kirika and Lechter (?) : These guys are supposed to enemies right? So how come do they seem pretty friendly to each other? And what's their motive for helping us? (Aside from Dieter proclaming independance)


    5. What's Calvard position on Crossbell ? Did they plan to annex it ? Or defend it from the Empire?

    6. Could someone translate Campanella's S-Craft ? Do you think it might be related to North Ambria turning into salt ?

    7. What's Ouroboros' role ? I mean they help the Crois awake the Sept-Terrion, test its power, take the data and leave. Except having other fish to fry, what is their reason for leaving the Sept-Terrion ?

    8. Could someone translate the Dialogue between Arianrhod and KeA ?

    9. What does Mariabell tell us when she leaves the Final Dungeon?

    Small Question on Sen (Didn't get to play that one, didn't prevent me from spoiling the game, and there's that French Translation I keep following).


    What are the Elemental Restrictions of the Orbements of Rean, Laura, Emma, Gaius, Machias and Crow? (Well I'd like those for everyone, but these will be enough I think)


    Erebonia Arc (Sen and Sen II) Mysteries (Feel free to correct me if I write anything wrong), and I'd like to hear your theories
    (Spoilers for Previous Games too)

    1. Laura vs Balancing Clowns (these things are developped by Ouroboros and Used by Campy right?) in that dimension ? (Maybe the Test required for her to become a Pilot?). The Second Game of each arc has impressed me so far, and I will be no exception.

    2. So, the beginning of Sen looks similar to the beginning of Zero, missing characters.. What's the excuse for them being dragged in the second time ? Or maybe they haven't met the first time ?


    3. In the first two arcs, the Sept-Terrion is already mentionned in the first game. I'd hate to see patterns as that would make the series predictable (Well not too much!) , but do you guys have any lead ? How do you guys translate "Sen" and relate it to the notion of Time ? Since we've had Sora no Kiseki for the treasure of Sky/Space, Zero no Kiseki for the treasure of Zero.

    But I find awesome the way, the game's names have matched their content so far.


    4. When I watched Rean enter and interact with Valimar , that looked familiar... It remembered me of the way Dieter entered that toy Novartis made in Ao. Maybe Novartis had enough time to study Crow's Robot and made one similar, But if you take into account, that Novartis' toys were (well the one that remains) once powered by the Septerrion of Sky/Time/Illusion, it should outclass Valimar and Ordine right ? (Well we did see what happened to Garrelia...).


    5. Speaking of these two there should be at least 2 others for Earth and Wind. But who might be the Pilots ? Pretty much why I asked the Element Restriction for Laura and Gaius (But I'm not sure of it, since Rean and Crow seem too special, the White Hair Red Eyes thingie).
    Oh and I asked Machias', because Machias looks like Dudley, and Dudley has time restriction, and anyone with a time restriction is suspicious... except Dudley. But the scene with Laura in that dimension should be a hint right ?


    6. Gaius.
    Everyone in class 7 looks so special (Come from a well-known family, or has secrets/hidden agendas, Oh and I almost forgot, doesn't seem to have both parents alive and in a normal relationship) except him. I'm not saying he's not interesting (I look forward to knowning more about him), he just seems too special... in his own way (compared to the rest of the cast, and the cast from previous games). And he doesn't seem to have important issues, does he?
    Besides he has a tatoo, (Is there any explanation for this ?) and the last guy who had a tatoo, had one big issue.
    So , who is he ? A dominion ? (He doesn't have green hair, but it would be too obvious of a hint if every dominion had green hair, right ?)



    7. Well, Sen's ending is a complete mess in my head... Could someone clear it up for me ?
    The nobles, The Liberation Front, That Giant Ship in the sky (whose is it ?), why they are doing it (Osborne I guess?).

    Oh and a Last One !

    I read on a board (don't remember who, where, or which topic, but might have been one of you), that someone didn't like the FC and SC naming. If you had to rename the 3 first games, what name would they have ? (I suppose I would keep the Sora no Kiseki for SC)



    Thanks for Reading ! :) (I praise you if actually you managed to read everything I wrote).

    I hope you won't be bothered by the number of questions, my somehow poor English or any mistakes i may I have done !
     
  7. overthebarrier

    overthebarrier New Member

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    254
    Bienvenue &agrave; bord !

    That is a lot of questions, and you're basically ruining Zero/Ao for yourself, but I'll start with the first one... As a note, we don't know a lot of Sen stuff since the second one isn't out yet.

    MAJOR SPOILERS

    Gnosis is a kind of drug made from the Pleroma flower. There are two varieties, red and blue, which are chemically identical but have different properties - the red one causes 'demonization' and the blue one does not. What they both do is access D, the Demiurgus, and send/receive information. This is reflected in different ways in different people, such as increased strength, a supernatural ability to predict the future, etc. The D&there4;G cult's name derives from this process: D ergo G, or Gnosis (knowledge) from the Demiurge. Over the centuries they have continued 'rituals', or in other words very horrifying experiments, to send enough data/emotions/pieces of souls to complete the Demiurge and resurrect the lost Treasure of Illusion. (D is stronger than the original and its powers are closer to manipulating causality. I don't think there's something D CAN'T do.)

    One feature of the Pleroma flowers that is unexplained is that they create a 'spiritual zone' around themselves. This means that the meta elements (Time, Space, and Illusion) are activated. This also means that strange phenomena like ghosts and fairies, as well as Illusionary Beasts, appear. You can tell that you are in a spiritually active zone by the different battle effects that appear, such as Death and Vanish. People who are sensitive or are affiliated with the Church can usually detect the activity of the higher elements.

    These zones have been built up since 3rd and unlike much of the other strangeness in the games, they are explicitly supernatural.
     
  8. BlueEarth

    BlueEarth New Member

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    47
    Mostly zero/Ao questions
    So could anyone go into more detail about Burst?Like how do it came into existence and how the characters use it, I already figured out how it works thanks to Overthebarrier.
    What happened to the old treasure of illusion?
    Why does the church not deal with D&there4;G for centuries?
    how does Toval kill a Jaeger with just a towel and 1 wind art is he just that good?
    Is the person on the Time master Art card an old man or is he like Mile Rean?
     
  9. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,557
    First off, welcome to the boards.
    1. He's impressed with Orchis Tower, talks about it versus the achievements of the ancient civilizations and mentions Liberl Ark by description and reveals that he has sources of information that tell him all sorts of interesting things, like Randy's background. Then he starts getting ominous and wonders how long Crossbell can hold onto its independence and there's some back and forth about the power of will and whether Crossbell's situation now is comparable to Liberl's situation a decade ago. Basically, the whole conversation reminds you that this is a very scary man.

    2. Red Constellation was working for Osborne to eliminate the Imperial Liberation Front while also working with Mariabell and Dieter to set the stage for the declaration of independence and to help cover their tracks (which is partly why they blew up the IBC Building), which means they were also getting indirect assistance from Ouroboros. Getting the opportunity to try and bring Randy back into the group was a private motivating factor. Sigmund doesn't really want the 'War God' job.

    3. This gets shown in The 3rd, she recieves an offer and quits the guild shortly after SC ends.

    4. For one thing, dubious loyalties aside Lechter is (so far as we can tell) a genuinely nice guy. For another, thanks to Sen we can determine that his actions in Crossbell happen around the same time that news would have gotten out that Osborne was shot. It's possible (but only speculated) that he simply decided to follow his conscience since he thought his boss was dead and unlikely to countermand him. His and Kirika's motivation is pretty much 'our respective masters want this city but we like it and would rather not see it go up in flames, thank you very much'.

    5. They want the city under their control just as badly as Erebonia does. However, the Empire has the larger army and also got its forces there first after both sides got their frontline troops whacked by the Aions.

    6. His S-Craft is literally 'Fake Salt Pillar' so yes, it's connected. It's likely the Craft is 100% illusory and he simply picked that visual effect because he's a troll of the highest calibre. Given the ending of Star Door 14, it's not impossible that he's actually trolling the player directly.

    7. They didn't leave the Sept-Terrion, it's theirs and they even got Mariabell as a replacement Pillar in the bargain.

    8. She's paying her respects to the 'honored child'.

    9. That she's been recruited by Ouroboros, just like Shirley.

    Primary (2 Slots) followed by secondary (1 Slot)

    Rean: Time/Fire
    Alisa: Fire/Space
    Laura: Water/Fire
    Eliot: Space/Water
    Machias: Earth/Mirage
    Jusis: Space/Wind
    Emma: Mirage/Fire
    Fie: Wind/Time
    Gaius: Wind/Earth
    Crow: Time/Water
    Miriam: Mirage/Earth
    Sara: Wind/Fire
    Angelica: Space/Time

    1. Yes, the Balancing Clowns are Ouroboros machines; They first appear in SC. Falcom has more or less confirmed that scene takes place in the door at Lohengrin Castle and it's presumably another Raiser test.

    2. WE DON'T KNOW! Seriously, it's driving us crazy, especially because something very similar happened in Zero which sets off all kinds of speculations.

    3. Technically, Demiourgos is only vaguely alluded to as <D> and we didn't know that 'Zero' referred to its replacement. That said, there are enough references to Fire in Sen that we're sort of assuming the Treasure in question this arc belongs to that element. The theory that Time was involved was speculation based on an attempt to explain Arianrhod's immortality but since then we've gotten a possible alternate explanation which doesn't involve Sept-Terion hax. Also, 'Phantom Blaze Plan'. Mirage could also be translated as Phantom so when we get to the second part...

    4. The Aion machines were successors to Pater Mater, the first Gordias Series machine. That's been under development for longer than Ordine has been awake.

    And yes, Aion Type-Alpha should be more powerful than the God Knights based on what we know so far. Of course, we certainly haven't seen much on the latter front but we have seen the Aion machines wipe out armies so until Rean and Crow can do that the Aions win by default, operational restrictions notwithstanding.

    5. My personal theory is that there are five more (this series does almost everything important in sevens) and they correspond to each element, not just the lower four. That would leave enough for several members of Class VII to become Raisers and for our antagonist group(s) to get enough to keep things interesting. No proof yet of course but the evidence suggests that spiritually active areas in Sen go hand in hand with God Knights and we've seen four of those so far. Since Ordine is already awake, that suggests a minimum of five knights.

    6. It's always vaguely possible that Gaius being totally normal means nothing more than that he's, well, normal. Wait, what am I saying? This is Kiseki! Okay, given his upbringing, his 'wind sense' and his S-Craft, it's quite possible Falcom is hinting that he's a Dominion with a Stigma that hasn't fully awakened yet. His tattoo on the other hand has been confirmed in an interview to be a tribal custom. His father has one too so there's apparently nothing sinister about it.

    7. In short, Ouroboros is playing everybody against everybody and it's not clear which of their pawns are in on the game. The Nobles are revealed to be the secret backers of the Imperial Liberation Front but it's obvious Ouroboros is behind them; Vita helped Crow obtain Ordine and the Pentagruel is totally a Workshop Thirteen product. Ouroboros has also been backing Osborne and his reformist movement for some time. It seems safe to assume that all this is in some way necessary to obtain whichever Sept-Terion is hidden within the Empire as Vita and Bleublanc state that everything is going according to plan. No, we don't know what that is yet and we're just as excited to find out.

    - Burst pretty much gets handwaved as a consequence of the aforementioned spiritually active areas.

    - It chose to end its own existence rather than be misused. Pity the ancients who built their society around it failed to grasp the intended message and spent 1200 years trying to recreate it.

    - The Church is a favorite area of speculation fodder. We know from SC that on occasion they're willing to overlook certain things, though in this case they did act decisively once D.G. began abducting victims for their experiments en masse. Before that, they pretty much flew under everyone's radar.

    - He is that good but the Jaegers in question were under an influence and even weak attacks that should only have disabled them were fatal.

    - We haven't a clue, although there's enough parallels between the Space and Mirage cards and known entities to suggest the images could be foreshadowing. If you look at the Fire card you'll notice a flaming sword (Rean's?), a crowned man (Emperor Jugend? Dreichels?) and roses (Olivier's?). Make of that what you will.
     
  10. overthebarrier

    overthebarrier New Member

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    254
    I like to think of Burst as
    KeA cheating to help her family
     
  11. Karrion42

    Karrion42 New Member

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    Moar questions:

    1.
    Why do the Sen cast need to infiltrate the Gareria/Galeria/Garrelia Fortress? I think they do even twice because Risking everything, we stand is simply Atrocious Raid with an extended intro

    2.
    I've seen in a trailer, from Ao I think, where it appears a Gareria/Galeria/Garrelia operator aiming the cannon to Crossbell. Does Crossbell get destroyed? D:

    3. Maybe this is a bit of a tricky question:
    Are there any boss theme in the series associated with concrete boss battles? I've seen for example Inevitable Struggle associated with Yin/Rixia but it seems it is also heard in a battle against Garcia, yet Garcia seems to have Demonic Drive associated to him... It's a bit confusing, I know @_@
     
  12. overthebarrier

    overthebarrier New Member

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    254
    1
    The Imperial Liberation Front assaults Garrelia while Class VII is there on a school trip. It happens once but is shown twice. "Risking Everything, Here We Stand" is played at a different moment in the game.

    2
    No.

    3
    Silver Will is associated with Lorance/Loewe. Fateful Confrontation/Maybe it was Fated (the vocal version) are associated with Ouroboros Enforcers. Demonic Drive is more a theme of what's happening than about Garcia and it plays in a battle with another character too. Don't Be Defeated By a Friend! is played during class tests in Sen.

    Falcom Sound Team JDK doesn't really do character motifs as much as it does setting music. It's not like, say, Wild Arms where Oops... is associated with Zed and it plays whenever you meet him. But that's JDK for you, cranking out new songs all the time...
     
  13. omgfloofy

    omgfloofy Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    A big thing to remember is that Sen is happening simultaneously with Zero no Kiseki and Ao no Kiseki.

    Sen no Kiseki's ending is happening right around the beginning of Ao no Kiseki's final chapter. So the stuff with Garelia Fortress that you see in the two games actually has some connections- but they may not always be what you think they are.

    However, the scene you mention with the cannon aiming to Crossbell has some consequences that ripple back into Sen.
     
  14. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,557
    Well, there is one 'true' individual theme song in Kiseki which belongs to, unquestionably, the greatest character in the series. I speak of course of [background=black]I've Forgotten You, the leitmotif of Gilbert[/background].
     
  15. Reta

    Reta New Member

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    35
    Is Arios a (more or less) permanent party member in Ao?
    Could I get info on how to access each game's bonus bosses? It's my understanding that some are monster hunts, but not all. I don't want info on the bosses themselves.
    In Star Door #15 (I had it spoiled), Joshua can be seen with the facial scar/tattoo that Campanella now has. Does this have any significance? Is it even explained?
     
  16. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,557
    1
    No, he's only playable during (most of) the Prologue dungeon. The game would be way too easy if you had access to him beyond that point.
    2
    There's an optional dungeon in The 3rd that contains four. The fourth only appears if you go through the entire dungeon and beat the first three without ever teleporting out. Zero and Ao's bonus bosses only appear in New Game +
    3
    That's just a bloodstain. He and Loewe had just finished killing a lot of very evil people.
     
  17. Reta

    Reta New Member

    Messages:
    35
    1
    That's what I was afraid of. I'll try to avoid jumping to conclusions about the fights against him until I actually play the game, I guess...

    2
    Are the Zero/Ao bosses hidden, or are they very easy to find if criteria are fulfilled?

    I also wanted to thank you all for doing summaries. I look forward to seeing the results.
     
  18. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,557
    Oops, forgot to mention that detail.
    Zero's bonus boss is found in a Final Chapter quest that only shows up in NG+ and takes you to a new area (which you can see but not access beforehand). Ao has six new enemies appear in spots you've already been to, also only in the Final Chapter. After defeating the first five, the last will appear. No new area to explore though.
     
  19. Karrion42

    Karrion42 New Member

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    130
    What are those Star Doors mentioned in Reta's third question?
     
  20. omgfloofy

    omgfloofy Well-Known Member

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    The Star Doors is part of a mechanic in 3rd...

    A big part of unlocking segments in 3rd is done by accessing Memory Doors- and then eventually, it's accomplishing sets in 3rd to be able to unlock other doors. These can be anything from having one or two characters in the party, all the way to having every quartz of a particular type, or even paying 12,000 mira to get the door open.

    There are three different types: Sun Doors, Star Doors, and Moon Doors, all of which have a different mechanic behind them. These are the side quests of 3rd that fill in the gaps of the Kiseki story that will fill in story stuff that wasn't touched on in SC. This is where all the backstory information comes into play.

    Sun Doors are Mini-Games. There's a quiz show, rail shooter, and so forth. There are 5 of these.
    Moon Doors are the "long story" events. They have longer than normal side stories. While there's five of them, most feature some major part of backstory for a particular character. There are also 5 of these.
    Star Doors are also event doors, but these are shorter than the Moon Doors. There are 15 of these. These can be related to characters, or related to events that have affected Zemuria.

    The one in the question is one of the more infamous Star Doors, which features Renne's backstory. You can find the translation at this link:
    http://eiyuutrans.blogspot.com/2013/04/sora-no-kiseki-3rd-little-girl-of.html

    I'd consider this mechanic a spoiler, because there is a bit of involvement in the story, and when Falcom advertised 3rd, they kind of glossed over the game working on a different system than FC and SC- so the concept behind it was really foreign to people jumping into the game for the first time.

    Also, thanks Reta for the link earlier. It's very useful and makes my life easier! :D
     

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