Ask Us About Kiseki

Discussion in 'The Legend of Heroes Series' started by omgfloofy, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

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    Thanks for the feedback, I wonder if it is something that will be expanded upon or just some small detail at the end of the day. One thing I'm wondering by the end of CS IV

    By the end of the Erebonia stuff, do we have an idea if Bleublanc's appearances are done or is he still around and will most likely cause more shenanigans? On one hand, it seems like there are a number of enforcer's and Anguis we have yet to meet so he may be sidelined, on the other from what I gather he still pokes around in some way in each arc to cause trouble. Since he seems to be more famous for his exploits in Erebonia, I was sort of thinking this would be the final arc he would have some spotlight in, but he's my favorite enforcer and I would love to see more of him, especially if he keeps the same English voice actor and we do get the new games.
     
  2. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,555
    It's really more of a generic 'oops, I'm not good at this cooking thing' gag and there's nothing especially Japanese about it, given that both are white crystalline powders commonly used in cooking.

    I dunno if you've spotted it yet but in one way or another he is the only character present in every game so far. Even in CS3 where we're told he's not involved and we never see him he's still there. As CS4 reveals, Aleister who gives you a quest in Ordis was one of Bleublanc's guises. Likewise while he doesn't appear onscreen in either Crossbell game (at least, not as himself) he's there and runs the SSS through his antics, plus he plays a background role in a couple of events. So yeah, he's nine for nine so far and it's hard to imagine him not keeping the streak going.

    Another reason we have for expecting him to return is that when the Grandmaster, Mariabell and Campanella are discussing the outcome of Phantasmal Blaze and the topic turns to who's been lost or left the Society, Bleublanc is specifically noted as someone whose cooperation they expect to retain for the next phase of Orpheus. He only sidelined himself in 3 and 4 out of respect for Vita's decision, not because he doesn't still enjoy his work. Vita's also assumed to be on the returning list.

    As for being famous in Erebonia, that's more a case of who's giving him the most attention that we know of. It's not his home country, as can be deduced from the story in the Phantom Thief B Report which we learn is the correct one. He's likely to be every bit as infamous in Calvard and we just haven't seen it yet.
     
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  3. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

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    821
    So in CS3. when you get ap points or wgatever they are called. The points you get after each sub chapter that rewards you at certain point threaholds....you also get campus points that dont really show a number. I get medals for it but seemingly nothing happens. What gives?
     
  4. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,555
    The medals that show up on the screen are also powerful accessories and are pretty much their own reward. CS4 will also look for your campus rank in your CS3 clear save and you'll get some freebies depending on how well you did.
     
  5. Ringwraith

    Ringwraith Well-Known Member

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    1,883
    It's basically another collective ranking of all your various log progress.
    Notably, you definitely don't need to be perfect with it to get the top rewards.
     
  6. AttentionDeficitGuy

    AttentionDeficitGuy Well-Known Member

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    2,421
    So I just got to the big exposition dump in the final chapter of CS3, and I have a question about the designation of Erebonia's Sept-Terrion: was it really called the Sept-Terrion of Steel in the original Japanese? Because if so, damn that's gotta be the mother of all happy accidents, given that XSEED translated the title Trails of Cold Steel years before Sen III released (though admittedly, as I understand it, they did check on the name with Falcom before finalizing it, so I imagine Kondo was furtively chuckling during that entire conversation).

    Followup question: do we ever figure out exactly what Lost Zem and Ark Rouge's actual purpose was? The exposition dump basically just said that they "fulfilled mankind's desires", but didn't give anything concrete as to how they achieved that, like the Aureole's ability to translocate matter, energy and information, or Demiourgos' ability to see and affect causal outcomes.
     
  7. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,555
    I'll split the answer into two pieces because the second does get an answer but it involves material from CS4 (though I'll avoid any plot spoilers):
    Yeah, it's literally 'Steel' in Japanese as well. It's written as 鋼の至宝 which puts an interesting new twist on Arianrhod's Ouroboros title, which is 鋼の聖女 (literally 'Steel Saint', localized as 'Steel Maiden'). Kondo absolutely had to be holding back a laugh when he approved Cold Steel as the English title for the games given how ultimately appropriate it was, though he could sneakily hide it because 'The Glint of Cold Steel' is the main battle theme of CS1 and all that. That song title's really clever actually, since if you were to try and render it in Japanese you'd also get a title drop for the Japanese name for the games.
    CS4 gives us the additional information that CS3 did not, which is the titles of Erebonia's Sept-Terrion. All four in Japanese are written with a Japanese description and then furigana indicating the proper name. Aureole was the Shining Ring, Demiourgos was the Hollow God. Per CS4, Ark Rouge was the Crimson Holy Ark and Lost Zem the Great Black Hammer. We assume these give some indication of the original appearance of the two Sept-Terrion but we've never actually seen them, only the giant forms they assumed when their two civilizations went to war.

    As for powers, we learn that Ark Rouge (Fire) granted power over the soul while Lost Zem (Earth) granted power over the body. In an interview Kondo mentioned that they got the idea from the Chinese concept of Hun and Po, where everyone has a 'spiritual' soul that leaves the body upon death and a 'corporeal' soul that remains with the body.
     
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  8. zwabbit

    zwabbit Active Member

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    Makes one wonder if the Glorious might even be from Ouroboros salvaging the 'body' of the Holy Ark and adding mechanical components where needed to get it flying again.
     
  9. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,555
    It's an interesting idea but unfortunately it's almost certainly a translation artifact due to English using the same word for two different concepts.
    The 'Ark' in the Glorious' name is written 方舟 while the 'Ark' in Ark Rouge is written 聖櫃. The former is used in Japanese for ships like Noah's Ark or Utanapishtim's Ark (which made its way into Ys) while the latter is used to translate the Ark of the Covenant into Japanese. Since both are rendered as 'Ark' in English they look related but actually aren't. Ideally NISA would have rendered the Sept-Terrion's name as Arche Rouge (which would have been better French) but there you go.
    On the other hand, we do already have an example of something similar happening in the series:
    The Merkabah airships are based on an Artifact referred to as the 'Original Merkabah' which the Church reverse-engineered. I expect we'll learn more about that later in the series.
     
  10. zwabbit

    zwabbit Active Member

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    Ah, but the Glorious is technically just a giant "box" with engines strapped onto it. :p

    Though in all seriousness, this is an instance where the differing context levels between the two languages can play merry hell with the meanings.
     
  11. nivora

    nivora Active Member

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    648
    https://xseedgames.tumblr.com/post/120804314195/the-legend-of-heroes-trails-series-localization ;):p
     
  12. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

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    821
    Just finished game. Some questions, don't be afraid to spoil please, doesn't bother me too much, but tag it for others I guess.

    1: cs3 lacked like half of the old students, do they all appear in 4?

    2: regarding vita/ oroborus/ the grandmaster's plan, etc.:
    Vita claims she's loyal to the grandmaster, and that everyone else is making a mistake. ok. But I spoiled myself alrady and learned that oroborus' final objective is 'the nothingness of all'... major jrpg end-world cliche cringe-fest... but this series desirves it for building upton so many games. so they get a pass... But regarding Vita. she's not dumb... he isn't just misunderstanding is she? I don't get why she's going her own way regarding this.

    3: Lots of the oroborus staff seem to feel regret at the end of cs3, like they think Vita may be right... But the final plan is 'the nothingness of all' right? do they not know this? I don't think so but I think I'm just not getting something.

    4: not important, but I like Sltina and rankly.. her base-stats quartz/craft mechanics aren't great. Does she improve in some area in cs4?
     
  13. jumpyjunpeii

    jumpyjunpeii Member

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    197
    I think you have things a little mixed up. Their final objective isn't the nothingness of all - that's just something that's coming in a few years. If I understood it right, they seem to be trying to prevent it.
     
  14. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,555
    1. Almost all of the Thors alumni reappear but some of them are relegated entirely to offscreen dialogue. There's a significant chunk of them that play important roles however.

    2&3. jumpyjunpeii is correct, Ouroboros is not trying to cause the Nothingness of All, they're trying to prevent it or at least minimize its effects, we're not sure which yet. The Grandmaster states quite clearly that what happened with the Great Twilight bought the world several more years.

    4. With Altina you just need to get used to how her stat balance works. Like Millium she's got amazing DEF/ADF and horrible HP and SPD but where Millium's strength is, well, STR, Altina's is her ATS. She's an extremely versatile character with her Craft selection, it just takes setting her up a bit differently. Abusing Ebon Shade helps a lot once she's learned it. But yeah, she's best for her versatility rather than being excellent in a specific area.
     
  15. jumpyjunpeii

    jumpyjunpeii Member

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    197
    A bit of an odd question, but I'm curious how obvious George's name and affiliation would be to a Japanese player with no real English knowledge. Do they use gnome in the game as a loan word, or have their own term? I know they typically have names next to their portraits in menus written in English in the JP versions, but I guess I don't know how common it would be for your average player over there to be able to read it. Just something I was mulling over, with how hilariously in your face it is.
     
  16. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,555
    It both is and is not 'obvious' depending on what you're looking at:
    Gnome in Japanese is written as 地精 and it's not until CS2 that it was given furigana indicating that the in-universe word is 'Gnome'. That in turn is written as グノーム. George's name is written as ョルジュ・ノーム, and as you can see the last characters are identical but the first one is different, so it doesn't jump to the eye in the same way that G. Nome does in English. The word Gnome can also be rendered into Japanese simply with those last characters (ノーム) due to the way Japanese syllables work. However, that wouldn't be the way the Japanese audience would immediately think of George's last name name, because the official romanization gets provided in multiple locations and makes it clear that his last name is supposed to be Nome.

    That you can get G. Nome from his name is apparent from the official romanization just like it is to us, but it requires the Japanese reader to already know that グノーム is written as Gnome in English and you still have the different character used for the G in George versus the G in Gnome, so there's a slight barrier to looking at the words as they're written in katakana and seeing them as that pun. All that being said, yes, it's still a 'so obvious you're meant to dismiss it as a blatant red herring' sort of thing, it just gets some added wrinkles due to how Japanese works.
     
  17. jumpyjunpeii

    jumpyjunpeii Member

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    197
    Do we ever see Arianrhod fighting at full power? I know that in 3 Aurelia surpassed Lianne when she was human and I guess that's what she was fighting us as in that battle, but what about the final showdown with her in 4? Is it made explicitly clear that she isn't holding back? It'd be a shame if she died without ever actually going all out. I guess breaking part of her spear certainly seems like quite a feat considering what it probably is.
     
  18. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,555
    She says she won't hold back before the fight and claims she put everything into it afterwards when she congratulates everyone on defeating her but the party strongly suspects that she intended to lose all along in order to give Rean an advantage in the later Rivalries. It's left ambiguous whether she was telling the truth about not holding back or if she was 'a mother lying to her children' as it were.

    Ambiguity aside, the real shame with Arianrhod is that Ao teased us with the possibility of seeing her and Ein fighting each other and now we'll never know how that would have worked out. Okay, that and if Arianrhod had been allowed to live a little longer we might have had her as a playable character...
     
  19. jumpyjunpeii

    jumpyjunpeii Member

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    197
    Oh right, Ein... damn that IS a bummer. Come to think of it, is there even anyone left who'd be worth rolling up her sleeves for? I guess we don't know much about the GM, but I imagine the unrevealed Anguis/Enforcers can't possibly be above Ari, without slipping into some serious power creep. McBurn seems like the obvious candidate, but by the end of 4 he seems like he's actually pretty...chill.

    Sorry, sorry.
     
  20. zwabbit

    zwabbit Active Member

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    Leman
    How many gnomes are actually actively participating/assisting in Alberich's work?
     

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