Ask Us About Kiseki

Discussion in 'The Legend of Heroes Series' started by omgfloofy, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,557
    I don't believe it's laid out explicitly but removing the Vanders from their historic duty kept Matteus away from the Emperor and the possibility of his discovering what Eugent and Osborne were planning all along; That the two were working together rather than Osborne secretly working against Eugent's interests was one of the things that caught Olivier completely off-guard. It also allowed Osborne to create a replacement organization to fill that role. Given that the Great Twilight needed Ash's assassination attempt to happen (as a trigger for the Gral of Erebos to appear) replacing one extremely competent bodyguard who probably would have gone for Ash's head in a heartbeat with a group who could be directed to be less than fully diligent on the crucial day probably was a factor. That this also deprived Olivier of some of his support (and thus forced him to work harder at his own anti-Osborne efforts, making it less likely he'd act as a spanner in the works) was probably seen as an added bonus.

    As far as the status of the Vanders after the Great Twilight, they don't explicitly state that they were restored to their old position but Mueller is seen in the ending stills escorting Olivier and Alfin on one of their tours to reassure the populace which rather strongly implies that it happened.
     
  2. zwabbit

    zwabbit Active Member

    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Leman
    Some followup, some related, some not.
    How did Ash's assassination attempt act as a trigger for the Gral to appear?

    Other unrelated questions. Do we know how closely Ishmelga was able to monitor Osborne (setting aside whether Ishmelga ever bothered)? Could he mentally eavesdrop on the chancellor, or could Ishmelga only be aware of things it was directly told or witnessed?

    During the ending of CS2 when Crow was "dying," Vita acted as if he really was dying. Was she genuinely unaware of awakeners having pseudo-immortality, or was she faking it?
     
  3. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,557
    We don't know the exact details but there's something about the Arnor bloodline that's significant in and of itself and not just because the family has been ruling Erebonia since shortly after the Great Collapse. Olivier in 3 demonstrates an ability to see the flow of mana despite not being one of the Hexen and Mariabell is particularly interested in having Cedric around so Ouroboros can study the 'Arnor blood'. So there's something about the assassination that triggered the Gral's appearance, as predicted by the Black Records when it described the events leading up to the Great Twilight including 'the spilling of the ancient blood'. Speaking of which, the 'first Arnor' was the one who set AZOTH in motion and thus is responsible for the existence of the Black Records in the first place.

    Ishmelga could communicate with Osborne and observe him when it chose to. When it did, it saw that Osborne looked to be doing what Ishmelga wanted to happen so it didn't look closer and work out that Osborne was always planning to betray it at the last minute. Whether Ishmelga could mentally eavesdrop or if Osborne had to directly say things for Ishmelga to pick up on it I don't believe we know, but we do know that Ishmelga was never subtle about when he was present so either way Osborne would have had warning of when he had to be especially careful.

    Awakener pseudo-immortality isn't a given, or at least not the kind that Crow ends up with. Vita knew that an Awakener can be resurrected as an undead linked to their Knight since she works with one of them (it would be kind of hard for her to not recognize who Arianrhod really is when Elie suspected it within seconds of seeing her face) and Lianne was raised in Elin so it's not a secret to the Hexen at large. However, Vita couldn't be sure that it would apply to Crow as the other possible result of an Awakener dying is that they become a Nosferatu. This is described as the far more common outcome, so Vita would have good reason to try and keep Crow from dying in the first place and be worried about his fate if he did die.
     
  4. zwabbit

    zwabbit Active Member

    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Leman
    Lianne was raised in Elin? I understand she spent time there, but I thought her hometown was Legram?
     
  5. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,557
    Sorry, that was unclear due to my choice of words. She was raised from the dead in Elin, she didn't grow up there; Roselia took Lianne's body there after her death during the battle with Vermillion Apocalypse and it lay in a state of preservation for some time before she awoke.
     
  6. zwabbit

    zwabbit Active Member

    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Leman
    Aww, and here I thought there was some secret history on her part that she was a mage-knight. :p
     
  7. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

    Messages:
    822
    So cs2 made it so spirit unification wasnt a scary thing anymore. Does cs3 explain why its bad and scary again?
     
  8. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,557
    Not directly, although you can make a fairly good guess at it by the end of the game. CS4 makes it clear why things started to change after CS2.
     
  9. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

    Messages:
    822
    So I tend to play trails games with self imposed challenges like no scrafts during bosses, no earth wall abuse, etc (unless there are hard timers like cs2's timed for ap bonus fights).

    Chapter 1 gameplay boss spoilers
    I just beat the chapter boss for chapter 1 and it involved 2 bosses, where one got superpowered after the other got ko'd without a massive heal... making it so killing em both equally would have been better.

    Is it safe to assume future "multibosses" have this mechanic? Kind of a pet peeve of mine in games. Particularly shmups. Oh hey you shot down 19 out of 20 gun turrets on that big plane. That last one will now have a magic forcefield multiplying its health by 20 and it now shoots more bullets than all of the turrets did combined x3!... uhh. Wut?
     
  10. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,557
    That sort of thing has been a mechanic in the series since FC with Chapter 2's last boss being a double encounter where the one dying buffs the other.

    As far as CS3 goes that's not actually a 'last enemy standing buff', it's just that one boss happened to go into Exaltation status after you defeated the other.
    Bosses generally have one or more HP thresholds where they'll always use their Exaltation buff, but some have a general 'won't start using it until x% but then can use it whenever they feel like' pattern.
     
  11. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

    Messages:
    822
    I know its not a brand new mechanic but fc's example actually says they do it right in their description.

    Funny that it was a coincidence, literally happened the turn after lol.

    Seems like they like using powered up attacks after too that look like ones you can impede but... dont after you try. Like that one quest boss with a death tongue attack thing.
     
  12. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

    Messages:
    822
    Does cs3 have 4 chapters and then a final 5th chapter or is chapter 4 the final? It seemed ambiguous to me where I saw people say chapter 4 was twice as long as the other chapters. But I spent like 25 hours on chapter 1 only so dayyum. Not that Im complaining
     
  13. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,557
    Prologue, four numbered Chapters and a Finale.
     
  14. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

    Messages:
    822
    Nice. Looks like im on track for playing this fpr over 120 hours in 1 playthru. Dayum
     
  15. jumpyjunpeii

    jumpyjunpeii Member

    Messages:
    197
    Is Japanese a bit fuzzy when it comes to gendered pronouns? I only ask because of the couple of errors NISA made when referring to Cecil as male (understandable, given the name) and Angie's master as male. Is she/he not as clear cut as it is in English?
     
  16. zwabbit

    zwabbit Active Member

    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Leman
    Identifying gender from pronouns in Japanese is one of those pain in the ass things that drives translators nuts. Indeed even Japanese themselves have trouble with it from time to time. The Banner of the Stars anime made a male character female because of a miscommunication between the writer and the animation team, because within the text proper it was not clear.
     
  17. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

    Messages:
    822
    My understanding of Japanese is very beginner. But yeah, while there are gender seperate ways of saying certain things, iirc he/she was ambiguos.
     
  18. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,557
    Yep, while there are certain very clear ways of saying he/she, they're not used with anything near the same frequency as in English and most third-person references are gender neutral. Between this and how grammar works generally, Japanese has many ways of obscuring gender either deliberately or otherwise. XSEED got tripped up by this in FC as well. in the initial PSP release.
    In the PSP version Weissmann talks about the Grandmaster as being male. In Japanese there's no indication of gender, so it's only because of the Ouroboros Report drama cd that we knew the Grandmaster is in fact female. This got corrected in the PC version by replacing it with gender-neutral language.
    For the references to Kirika, I can understand how that mistake might be made. She's always referred to indirectly and the only place where it's mentioned that Angelica learned Taito from a woman was back in CS1. While CS3 absolutely confirmed that it was Kirika, it's one of those 'you need to remember what Angie said two games ago and you need to remember Kirika's new job which was last mentioned four games ago' things, so it's the kind of thing that could be overlooked pretty easily if you don't have an extremely comprehensive series bible to reference, or someone with a really good memory. And even if you have one or both, it's the kind of detail that could slip through editing and QA amid all the other stuff that needs to be kept track of.
     
  19. AttentionDeficitGuy

    AttentionDeficitGuy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,422
    Question regarding a certain character's enrollment at Thors:

    So in Celine's exposition dump about Vita and Emma's backstory, the reason Emma left the village was to seek out Vita. Thing is, if that was the case, why enroll at a military academy at all, which would only hamper her ability to move freely around the continent for two years? Celine just kinda glosses over that, being like "so the left the village, oh and she used her witchly connections to enroll at Thors," without giving any reason why she did so.

    The implication I always got from CS1 and CS2 was that Emma was at Thors in case a candidate to be the Ashen Awakener showed up, but Celine makes no mention of that. Is this ever addressed later, or was Emma's enrolling at Thors for no discernible reason while on a completely unrelated mission at the same time as the Ashen Awakener went through his trials (a thing her background gave her exclusive insight on) just an amazingly unlikely coincidence?
     
  20. jumpyjunpeii

    jumpyjunpeii Member

    Messages:
    197
    Is the Japanese word/character used for the "thousand" in Kevin, Rufina and the Fourth Anguis's titles the same? Seems a little suspect, if so!
     

Share This Page