Ask Us About Kiseki

Discussion in 'The Legend of Heroes Series' started by omgfloofy, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. zwabbit

    zwabbit Active Member

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    At the same time, that "last mile" between your railroads and your final destination can in and of itself be a pretty major logistical impediment. During WWI Germany was able to mobilize far more quickly than its opponents thanks to its railroads, but to traverse the distance from its own borders through Belgium to hit Paris was more than their logistics was capable of supporting since they were beyond the domestic rail network, something the German general staff knew outright. They ignored those problems and launched the offensive as planned anyway, resulting in several years of trench warfare. And apparently not having learned their lesson, they did the same thing in WWII with Barbarossa against Russia. Belgium of course kind of got squashed like a bug both times though, so with enough firepower, it can be done. If you can move quickly enough and your enemy is weak enough. If not, the death toll skyrockets very, very quickly.
     
  2. Velorien

    Velorien New Member

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    Osborne: "If I might make one slight modification to your suggestion... why don't we replace 'fire support' with 'wipe out a small country'?"
    Irina: "Will it mean more money for me?"
    Osborne: "It will mean ALL the money."

    Gwyn: "Where am I? What happened to my clothes? And why can I hear horses?"
     
  3. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

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    Well, barring a sudden development we are two weeks away from CS III finally being released. Been a little bit over 3 years since CS II came out and about 2.5 since our last unreleased kiseki game (sky 3rd in 2017). Hoping to see a bit more activity here with its release since it's felt pretty dead here for a while, and the only other places I've seen for discussions I could be a part of aren't nearly as good. So to get us ready I'm wondering what people are looking forward to most in Cold Steel III. Only basing stuff off of what NISA has openly promoted so not going to put anything in spoilers.

    Of course I look forward to every single moment with our dear Prince Olivert, who never disappoints with his presence. More importantly, with Tita and Agate making their return I look forward to any interactions they have with him. We all know Agate misses his alone time with Olivert. With this class 7 being much smaller I look forward to seeing how much I enjoy their characters. That one particular call back in this games prologue to the first cold steel prologue I'm not a fan of, but each one should have more screen time to stand out compared to the OG class 7, at least in theory. I do like the voices of all of them, even Juna's, though from what I can gather I seem to be in the minority with that. Of the returning class 7 I look forward to more Fie, Millium, and Jusis the most.

    Last, I am interested to see how Rean's story continues to progress. While not a fan by any stretch, the last game ended in a way that has me interested in how his story will progress. I also want to enjoy his character to having another part of his arc I hope I can actually get more attached. That and after replaying CS I and II with a friend I await the moment that Patrick will take his mask off and confess his love for Rean, that Tsundere.

    There is some other things I look forward to but it involves certain story spoilers I know of and don't want to post those at this time. While I know some of the big moments and reveals already I look forward to getting the context and a lot more of the world building, because even at its weakest Kiseki still is amazing with its world building.
     
  4. Kikki

    Kikki Active Member

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    This is a super basic question, and very unlikely to actually have any spoilers in it, but I'll put it behind a cut just in case.

    In Cold Steel I and II, you have different circumstances, but basically the same overall format, which I will generalize (inaccurately) as going back and forth between 'schoolwork and free time' and 'field study time'. CS II isn't precisely the same, but the format is close enough to it, imo. Either way, the story follows Rean. In CS III, does the story still follow Rean? Or has the focus, during school at least, been passed on to one of the students, since Rean is now a teacher and probably won't be running little errands for student council? Or is that not an issue because the format is different?

    I'm not sure if that question made sense, the way I put it. :/ I'll try to clarify if what I'm asking is unclear. I'm not really looking for a detailed answer, I'm just having a hard time picturing the story following Rean around in the way it did in the first two games. I played the demo, but couldn't tell from that.

    Also, sorry if this question has already been asked and answered. I mostly avoid this thread since I don't want to run into any major spoilers for III and IV. (Small spoilers are fine but major story spoilers are not, and I'm never sure what I may run into.)
     
  5. AttentionDeficitGuy

    AttentionDeficitGuy Well-Known Member

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    Well, things I'm looking forward to (and am putting some things in spoilers as they relate to previous games):

    (1) Rean. I love Rean as a character, and I'm super excited to see what the second half of his character arc will bring. Just knowing where we left him off in CS2, combined with CS3 starting him off where he is and interacting with who he's interacting with makes my mind race with possibilities.

    (2) The Crossbell problem.
    I always found Crossbell interesting since I first played CS1, but having recently played the Crossbell arc for the first time, I'm super invested of the fate of the city and its people during the Erebonian occupation. We know one of the new party members is from Crossbell, and Randy (who was at different points a member of Crossbell's Guardian Force and police force) is one of the branch campus teachers, so I'm REALLY excited to see if there are any developments to the Crossbell problem in CS3 (and if any of the other former SSS members/supporters besides Randy and Tio show up).

    (3) The Church vs. Ouroboros
    It looks like from the trailers that Thomas and Rosine show up during the game in their capacities as a knight and squire of the Gralsritter, and things always get interesting when the Gralsritter show up. On the Ouroboros side, I can't wait to hear what Campanella sounds like (but also I'm kinda dreading it, because I have a very specific mental voice for him that I doubt he will end up sounding much like), and I hope that Duvalie and McBurn show up as well.

    (4) Valimar
    Given how much Valimar developed over the course of CS2, so that by the end he started to have a bit of personality, I'm curious to see how much he's changed over the year and a half after the time skip. On a similar note, I hope we also meet some other Divine Knights, and that they actually get a little characterization (or at least speaking lines), unlike Ordine who, from the audience's standpoint, might as well have been a fancy Soldat.

    (5) Zephyr and Red Constellation
    I've become rather invested in this whole dichotomy since playing Crossbell, and with CS3 potentially bringing Fie (and possibly Xeno and Leo as well?) in contact with Randy, Shirley, and maybe even Sigmund Orlando (at least I hope he shows up here), I can't way to see how (or if) this rivalry will play out.

    (6) Vantage Master. What can I say, I'm a sucker for MTG/L5R style card games, and I always loved when Final Fantasy would use them as minigames. The idea of something similar done with Kiseki's more modern design sensibilities and generally superior integration of sidequests into the main game makes we want to waste way too much time playing a fictional card game within an existing video game.
     
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  6. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    Plot progression in CS3 is similar to CS1 but with a few tweaks. Because the Leeves branch campus is so small the teachers have to pull a lot of double duty and Rean's natural inclination to think of people around him first (a thing that he gets gently mocked for) extends to him taking work off Towa's hands since she's so busy not only teaching but doing most of the administrative work involved in keeping the school running. This also helps integrate the school into the community better, since Trista has been used to having Thors there for several hundred years while Leeves just had this school dropped in their laps and not everyone's totally on board with that. A lot of the Thors-based stuff that Rean gets involved with as part of the sidequests have to do with things that a teacher in a Japanese school would be expected to do, like helping supervise club activities.

    As far as general plot progression goes, there's more focus on the members of the new Class VII during the various practical exams, then Rean is usually supervising his students on the field exams but there are also segments where he'll go off with members of the old Class VII, or where his students will be acting without Rean present. An interesting quirk of this that has to have been intentional on Falcom's part is that Rean will always be at a slightly higher level than his students.

    <whistles innocently, Sara-style>

    And no, I won't tell you which part(s) of that prompted the whistling. ;)

    I think the best part of Vantage Masters is that it's a very cool adaptation of a real Falcom game to CCG format. Back in the day they even made the game available in English, free to download and you can still play it. Might take a bit of work to get running on a modern machine though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
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  7. AttentionDeficitGuy

    AttentionDeficitGuy Well-Known Member

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    AAAAAARGH! WHAT IS IT!? Did Duvalie and/or McBurn die offscreen!? Is Campanella retconned into a mute!?
    Do the Gralsritter and Ouroboros team up against Osborne!? Did Rosine get promoted from squire to full knight between CS2 and CS3!?
    WHAT IS HAPPENING THAT I DON'T KNOW!?!?

    (Oh, and it case it wasn't obvious, I don't want you to actually answer these questions - I'll find out on my own soon enough.)
     
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  8. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

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    Funny thing about one of the things you mentioned is if you played the Demo you get an answer to one of those things. Won't say which since you don't seem to know.

    Not necessarily something I "look forward to" but I am interested in how my experience with the game will be not having any experience with playing the Crossbell games and only knowing scant bits of major plot points. I could wait and play the Crossbell games once the Geofront translation of Zero is ready, but I am very curious just how different my experience will be not having played them. Since I replay these games regularly I will eventually play CS III again with in depth knowledge of Crossbell so not worried about never playing the game in full context at some point.
     
  9. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, since I didn't mention it earlier the thing I'm most looking forward to when CS3 drops later this month is: Watching the reactions of everyone playing the game for the first time. I have a supply of popcorn ready for the occasion. :D
     
  10. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

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    You may want unsalted popcorn, cause there might be enough salt for it with reactions to the localization.

    I do have one question about something that I saw in the short bit of demo stuff I watched.

    There's the section on the train where we get to see Agate and Tita (woo) and they put their attention towards Valimar. Having played sky and knowing Tita and her family seems like she would be flipping out over seeing Valimar up close but she has a pretty low reaction like "neat, that's a divine knight". I'm mainly curious if that's something only the English voice direction went with or was her reaction to Valimar pretty muted as well in the Japanese version?
     
  11. Kikki

    Kikki Active Member

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    Thank you for the answer! :)

    I got Cold Steel I just a couple months before CS II was released. I only had about one month to wait to get my hands on II after finishing I, which felt long at the time, though even then considered myself lucky to not have to wait very long to see the resolution of that
    HOW CAN YOU LEAVE IT LIKE THAAAAAT?!! cliffhanger. The way II ended left me feeling mildly concerned about Rean (since I love him to bits), as in my opinion, he continues to develop, yet never really gets any further ahead emotionally. (I'd find it hard to explain what I mean by that. I'm not trying to say he doesn't mature, just that he never really seems any happier with himself, which worries me.) The end of II felt (to me) like it left him in a bad place, but not a dangerous one, so there was low-key worry about how things were going to go from then on for him, but no major anxiety. So even though I've been waiting 3 years now, it hasn't been torture, since there was at least some sense of stability in that ending, for me.

    The end of III, however, I am quite sure will end in a cliffhanger, since these games have a sense of symmetry to them. And I have NO IDEA when I'll get to play IV, but I know it's going to be a lot more than a month! And I suspect it may even be a worse cliffhanger, because Trails doesn't go smaller as the story develops, it goes bigger and more dramatic.

    This is stuff I've said before, and I know at least one or two of the regulars (who already know how the story goes) are rubbing their hands together gleefully at the idea of seeing how people react to the story's continuation, since they were practically giggling about it. If I can't deal with the ending we get for CS III, I'll be sure to come and have a meltdown here on the forums, so as not to deprive you guys of your fun, lol. Though I'm a fairly calm person (I had a friend once describe me as 'off-puttingly sedate') and not that good at having meltdowns...perhaps it'll be so much drama that it'll just burst out naturally. ;)

    I'm actually kind of anxious about playing, tbh. That might sound weird, but I put off completing CS II for half a year because I wasn't ready to get to the end of Class VII. I'm just...overly invested, I guess. In Rean in particular, but I love them all, and I already really like the new Class VII. (And love that my sister can never remember Kurt's name so she always refers to him as "Baby Vander", who is her favourite of the new characters.)

    I'm very much looking forward to the new characters' backstories. Juna has a very interesting, kind of conflicted response to Rean, it seems...and Ash is hostile in what I find to be a somewhat weird way, so I'm super curious about them!

    EDIT: Also, Rufus is driving me NUTS.
    When the heck will it finally be safe to think of him as either one of the good guys, or one of the bad guys?! I generally find him to be a decent and upstanding guy, and I've always liked him, but WHERE he's standing is infuriating, because I hate that side. Though I didn't really like where he was before, either! Yet somehow this feels worse, because I loathe Osbourne. GET OFF IT, RUFUS. I just don't have any idea what my final opinion of the guy will be once it's all over.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 2:35 AM
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  12. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

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    I went into it a little in my Rean analysis thread, but I think I know what you mean in the spoiler.

    Rean's story has always been having a lack of place and self worth. With class 7 he got a sense of place and overtime was getting a bit of self worth with how him and the class made strides in helping out others. However, at the end of CS II with how everything ended his place was ripped apart with Class 7 splitting apart and with his goal being ripped apart right in front of him and how everything he's done up to that point being for naught, he's practically back to zero, or even further than where he was at the start. As Sarah said at the beginning of CS I, his lack of motivation would be an issue since once a big wind came through he wouldn't be able to stay where he was, and at the end of CS II we see that. So while he's not in a dire spot he's been put in a position he'd rather not be but because of the situation had to take that spot.
     
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  13. Kikki

    Kikki Active Member

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    Yeah, that's more or less it.
    Rean's been assured that he can be held as precious for who he really is, at least with his friends, but now he's been forced to take a side in a war he doesn't even believe in, just to minimize the harm that will be done to others, even though it seems like it'd tear him up. All the praise and criticism he's getting for what he's done...none of that can be good, either. He'd never believe the praise or be comfortable with it, and he'd take all the criticism to heart. For a guy who is barely convinced of his self-worth to begin with, that's worrying.

    Normally I wouldn't take this sort of thing quite so seriously in a game, but Trails is terribly well-developed in some ways, and I can see things going really bad for my favourite character. (Who is Rean, if that needs clarification.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 2:57 AM
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  14. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    Nah, it tracks the Japanese pretty well. You can see that bit here in floofy's first run of the game and hear it for yourself.

    Side note: The scene shortly afterwards with the POV camera gag is one of my favorite funny moments in the series so far.
     
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  15. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

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    I wsn't planning on playing WoW again with its classic relaunch, but my old guild from effing 12 years ago sent me e-mails and we're like 80 members strong with our old gang again, how could I say no? So I'm afraid I wont play cs3 as hard as I would like to but I certainly wont be able to resist and have it pre-ordered (I almost never pre-order games, last game I did preorder was... CS2 =P ).

    Frankly I'm looking forward to Altina screentime. I am a sucker for the whole near-emotionless kuudere loli type characters what can I say. I like her voice too. I also think she'll be a fun character despite that just in the sense her previous relationship with rean is kinda unusual, and her whole job can make for some interesting moments I'm sure, without the annoyingness that is Millium. Millium... I didn't hate her, but I didn't like her either.

    I most certainly will write a big blurb about my first impressions on the game though. Incidentally, I remember you folks say the game was big, is it bigger than cs4?

    Oh, and I also want to see the other towns in Erebonia other class 7 members visited that you didn't get to, I also hope you can travel by road across the whole country. I don't know why but somehow seeing the entire world connected (well just Erebonia but you know) will be a treat. Not sure if it will let you do that though.

    I also want to see more of class 1-5, I always loved that about CS in general, I felt way more invested in the NPCs in those games than FC/SC because I could recognize and remember the backstories of all of them super easily, so yeah. I think I was told she's still a mystery but I especially want more screentime for beryl.
     
  16. Cold_Steel_IV

    Cold_Steel_IV Member

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    How'd you know!? I kid, I kid. :p

    I suspect that's a part of why they decided to add an Epilogue to end on in the first place, and not end on "'Rean I am your father' -- cue credits". xD

    Anyway, same as Yotaka, I'm looking forward to seeing reactions to the game. If no one makes one beforehand, I plan on making a "Trails of Cold Steel III English Release Thread" where people can discuss the game in general (though with spoiler tags indicating how far into the game people are. Wouldn't want to see someone posting their impressions of Chapter 1 getting spoiled on something that happens in Chapter 2 or something.) and hopefully you guys'll post what you think. I love reading people's impressions as they go through the games. :)

    I definitely loved Altina in CS III, so hopefully she won't disappoint! I also loved Millium, but maybe you'll come around on her over CS III, too.

    I'll look forward to it! I enjoy reading your posts on these games. :)

    I felt as though if you just do the main story, CS III is longer, but CS IV has a lot more side-content and would take longer to fully complete, so I feel like CS IV is the bigger game (though they're both pretty close). I guess I could put it another way: Did you feel that CS II was bigger than CS I? CS IV is to CS III what CS II was to CS I in a lot of ways, so if you felt CS I was bigger, than you'll probably find CS III to be the bigger game. Somebody will hopefully correct me if I'm off or mistaken. Both CS III and IV are the biggest games in the series though, for sure. Both over 100 hours each, imo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 1:29 PM
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  17. Kikki

    Kikki Active Member

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    I like Millium a lot (Fie and Millium are the most interesting girls of original Class VII, to me, because of their stories) and am not yet feeling any attachment to Altina, though I trust Trails to make me care about her sooner or later :) I miss Millium's original voice already, though...something about the way it squeaked and cracked with sheer perky energy was so endearing, and her new voice is a bit smoother and less quirky, to my ears. It's weird to say when it's only her voice that has changed (and it's not all that different from the original anyway) but it's making me miss her.

    I was going to ask if someone was going to do that. This isn't my main forum but my usual hangout is not Trails-intensive and there won't be a thread dedicated to it there since there won't be enough players to carry it, so it'll be nice to have a specific place to go to talk Cold Steel III. Though...my love of Cold Steel may not be running on quite the same line as average. I...don't overly care about the world lore that everyone else seems to be super into. In fact, I tend to forget most of it entirely until someone brings it up. Even the over-arching story is not my primary concern. I often forget Ouroboros even exists and has a separate agenda from all the world politics, to boot. I'm most driven to play by learning more about the personal lives, motivation and development of the individual characters.

    On that basis, I doubt the things that grab my attention hardest will be what many others are most interested in. And I may completely miss major plot points if they're worked in subtly, which they definitely are, sometimes, because it's never what I'm concentrating on. Lol? So I probably can't contribute a lot to many of the discussions that are bound to come up.
     
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  18. Cold_Steel_IV

    Cold_Steel_IV Member

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    I feel the same way regarding Millium's voice, though I haven't heard all that much of her new one. I just hope it doesn't feel like they're two different characters more than anything.

    Hey, even if you're most interested in the characters, that certainly isn't a bad thing! The characters in Trails are always great, and I'd be happy to read your thoughts on the characters as you progress!
     
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  19. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

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    So you like Altina but find Millium annoying eh?
    *Trails of Persona will remember this*

    I always found Millium fun and one of the better party members character wise. Especially how she is the only one to get under Jusis's skin for a guy who is pretty composed. Altina on the other hand is a character I'm waiting for to be interested in. Her design in CS II did no favors but hope that CS III will make her interesting.

    As for those of you waiting for reactions, not sure how much you will get from me since I've spoiled myself of the bigger plot beats of both this game and CS IV. Though there will probably be at least one time I will post a pretty good reaction despite knowing what will happen.

    I know it's only for a little bit but I am going to enjoy the section where Olivier is playable. I look forward to his interaction with the cast and his move set in 3D

    Been slowly going through Sky 3rd with my friend in preparation for CS III. I was wondering if a second playthrough would diminish my enjoyment or pick out flaws a bit more like when I replayed Sky SC and CS II (still like both games but after another playthrough certain flaws made it a little less enjoyable). Still absolutely love this one and definitely the best of the Sky trilogy. First Falcom is really good with making their minimal models on screen show expressions whether it's from a blush or just how the models move. I love the first sky game but they hadn't gotten used to the style and you didn't get much expression from the models themselves.

    Character writing is just top notch, with so many great character interactions whether it's from the actual story or the side content. It does help having the two games before but even with the characters that had little screen time compared to some others get really great moments. Did the moon door about Kloe and forgot just how great the interaction between her and

    Lechter is. He has that lackadaisical attitude but really is a softy

    Also, going through the game I really do miss those chest messages. Such a minor detail but just adds so much fun to the experience.
     
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  20. Val the Moofia Boss

    Val the Moofia Boss New Member

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    I love Millium. She is among the most memorable Trails characters for me. Just full of energy and fun.
    To me, it's Altina who is a rather "meh" character. Having played a lot of JRPGs and having watched a lot of anime, she is just yet another cute loli with supernatural abilities/talent and a sad backstory who starts out cold towards the character and then will inevitably cry tears for him at the end. I'm not a fan of Renne or Tio either. I've found the Ruan orphanage kids to be more entertaining characters TBH.


    Well he is a charming guy but I just can't root for someone who admitted to helping advance the agenda of a, quite frankly, evil man, just because it'd be "fun". I know a lot of people like to ship him with Kloe, but honestly he'd be an absolutely terrible husband. He has no sense of morals and can't give Kloe a straight answer, always has to make it difficult for everyone.
     

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