Ask Us About Kiseki

Discussion in 'The Legend of Heroes Series' started by omgfloofy, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    If Emma is with Rean, Grianos shows up before Emma walks out of the store and then flies off. Rean thinks that he's never seen a bird like that before and mentions it to Emma when she walks out. Emma chases after him (Rean thinks she's a closet bird watcher) and thus isn't present when Vita shows up. If you're in NG+ there's an additional scene after Rean and Emma leave where Vita talks to Grianos.
     
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  2. civac2

    civac2 Member

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    What lead you to this assumption?

    As I said there are a couple lines in the dialogue that may indicate otherwise.
    Joshua says that Kevin's stigma was similar to his own save the control factor. Now if the control was the only function of Joshua's stigma that statement is a bit odd. He also thinks that Kevin's stigma is stronger than his was. In what way was Joshua's stigma weaker if it did not improve combat abilities, maybe the strength of the magic/thaumaturgy used?
    I realize this is a bit like reading tea leaves. There is no reason to suppose the writers were 100% consistent about such a minor matter, in a translation no less. Though as mentioned in this thread there is also
    the matter of the power Joshua supposedly received from the Grandmaster as every enforcer does. What would that be? If the stigma really does nothing but enable Weissmann to control him no amount of lawyering will turn the stigma into a gift. Of course, one could see Weissmann brainwashing as a whole as the power he was bestowed. That definitely made him powerful.
     
  3. Trails of Persona

    Trails of Persona Active Member

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    327
    Interesting, thanks for telling me. Looks like I know something I need to do whenever I get around to a new game + play through. I may attempt to platinum the games with Turbo mode, so I don't have to go through the grueling task of slowly getting through all the cut scenes by mashing the button to move dialogue along.
     
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  4. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    On the above subject which I seem to have overlooked, there's definitely more to it as side material makes a bit clearer.
    The Sealed Memories drama cd reveals that Weissmann's manipulations extended beyond just giving him a way to control Joshua if needed. For example, he took away Joshua's ability to feel fear. Loewe comes close to strangling Weissmann when he finds this out, even as he admits that an assassin with no sense of fear would be a strong fighter. Now remember one of the big things that Weissmann talks about in regard to his 'superhumans' and his Stigma experiments was taking away emotions...
     
  5. civac2

    civac2 Member

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    I never knew such a thing existed. If it isn't too much to ask can you give a short synopsis of the content of that drama CD. I would greatly appreciate it.
     
  6. Grey

    Grey New Member

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    18
    Is Joshua's Evil Eye something that he learned personally from Weissmann and/or could it be an example of his Stigma's power (regarding the conversation above)? Weissmann is capable of using a stronger Evil Eye, although with a somewhat different effect IIRC. I'm not sure I've seen other human characters with this ability (still haven't played beyond The 3rd).
    Also, how does it work? It doesn't seem to draw energy from his orbment (no EP consumption, being a craft, and no orbments shown, both in battle and in cutscenes where the ability is used), so I assume it's using the Stigma as a source. Or maybe it's something like Kurt's Fangshu?

    Or maybe it's just some inexplicable video game stuff, like other crafts creating "magic" effects just because it looks cool (most of the S-Crafts apply here, like where does that thunderous hurricane from Estelle's Wheel of Time come from? That flaming dragon from Agate's Dragon Dive, the healing powers of Kloe's Lichtkreis, etc.) and I need more suspension of disbelief :D
    But in the case of Evil Eye I still think the question is relevant.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  7. civac2

    civac2 Member

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    Joshua can still use Evil Eye after the stigma is gone. So no.
     
  8. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    There's lots of drama cds, I think we're almost at thirty now. Anyhow, quick synopsis it is:
    This one's a mix of events from the games and some material that also appears in part in the Loewe-centric sidestory manga Loewe Monogatari which covered from Hamel through SC from his perspective.

    - The first track involves Joshua having a nightmare about Hamel, then an assassination of a politician.
    - The second track is the one where Loewe realizes that something has happened to Joshua, as the two are sparring together and Joshua does far better than before. He confronts Weissmann about it.
    - The next track has the two plus Renne spending time together just before Joshua leaves to assassinate Cassius, shortly after Renne joins Ouroboros. It also covers the assassination attempt itself and Cassius taking out the people who (faked) trying to kill Joshua for failing the job, as part of the plan to get Joshua in the position that Weissmann wanted him in.
    - Most of the remaining tracks are adaptations of Moon Door 4 showing Joshua's early days in the Bright household, with the addition of the conversation between Joshua and Cassius that's mentioned several times in FC but whose content we only learn in SC.
    - The last track opens with narration by Loewe about how Joshua changed over the next several years and then the action resumes with the two of them at Karin's grave at Hamel and serves as an adaptation of the last scene of SC.
     
  9. civac2

    civac2 Member

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    Germany
    Thanks.
     
  10. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Active Member

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    Regarding "fake stigmas"
    How in hells name sould weismann get the opportunity to study stigmas enough to make "fske" ones? I imagine this might be where some people think there is a dominion mole in oroborus who volunteered their stigma for study but... Well weismann didnt seem very well respected rnough amongst his peers imo. So I vsnt see a fellow... Forgot the rank name... Sitting around letting him do it.
     
  11. civac2

    civac2 Member

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    Weissmann used to be a bishop in the congregation that controls the Gralsritter. He used his position to steal all kinds of information and scripture.
     
  12. LrdDimwit

    LrdDimwit Member

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    Well, what the game calls the Congregation for the Sacraments is not the same thing as what churches mean when they say congregation. IRL, a 'congregation' is a group of laypeople that all go to the same church and have the same preacher. In Zemuria, by contrast, the Congregation for the Sacraments is more like the College of Cardinals. A body made up of clergy of high rank in the church, and yes, specifically overseeing the Graalsritter (which is where all the people with Stigma work).
     
  13. Karrion

    Karrion New Member

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    23
    Speaking of Drama CDs... Is there any featuring, even if slightly, Cassius? I'd like to hear more of his japanese VA.
     
  14. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,571
    In everyday usage this is true but the terms weren't pulled from thin air.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_Divine_Worship_and_the_Discipline_of_the_Sacraments

    Yeah, he's in a few of them. One of them can actually be found online, the very first one that adapts scenes from FC with a framing story of Nial and Dorothy writing a report on recent events. Here are the points where he appears, the first is when he returns in Finale and the second is new material that takes place just after the ending of the game.



    I'm not sure why the description says it's from SC...
     
  15. TrailsZero

    TrailsZero Member

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    Crossbell
    What scene is the image with Alisa and Rean from? I cannot recall them getting so cozy like that before.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. zwabbit

    zwabbit Active Member

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    Leman
    Bonding event late in CS2 where Alisa asks to see the inside of Valimar, whose cockpit is not designed to accommodate two people.
     
  17. Karrion

    Karrion New Member

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    23
    Recently started Chapter 3 of CS1 and arrived at

    Nord Highlands

    already. During dinner, Jusis mentions "that incident in Crossbell last month". What is he referring to? Some background incident or something covered on the Crossbell arc?
     
  18. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,571
    Yeah, the way the timeline works, Chapter 2 of Cold Steel (ie 'last month' from the perspective of the characters where you are now) is concurrent with Zero no Kiseki's Finale so Jusis is referring to a major part of the Crossbell arc. You can find some more details in the Imperial Chronicle, but nothing that will spoil the plot for you if you're worried about that sort of thing.
     
  19. Ringwraith

    Ringwraith Well-Known Member

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    They mostly mention anything that's directly relevant, and leave out things that aren't (sometimes it's just 'there's weird stuff happening, but it's not our problem right now').
     
  20. Esmelas Heart

    Esmelas Heart New Member

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    15
    So I have a question about a certain conversation in the final chapter of Ao....

    In CS2 post-intermission, Claire reveals that Osborne's body has disappeared, something she was clearly surprised to have learned. To anyone who hasn't played Ao, this is the first sign that the Chancellor is still alive. However, in Ao's final chapter, the conversation the SSS have with Lechter in the train implies strongly that Lechter knows the Chancellor isn't dead. When did he learn of this?

    On the final day of CS1 (30th October), if you go to Trista station with Millium and ask at the ticket office about Crow's movements, she'll offhandedly remark that Lechter's disappeared, and his last known whereabouts are somewhere in the Crossbell region. This isn't surprising given that he met with the SSS on the 24th of October, and Garrelia Fortress was destroyed later that day. However, this snippet of information can be interpreted in more than one way and I'm not sure which one to believe.

    The first is that Lechter simply chose to lie low in Crossbell from October all the way to December. This is the simplest explanation, as travelling between Crossbell and the Empire is, by that point, pretty hazardous. In the final chapter of Ao, the first thing that came to mind when Lechter wanted to talk to the SSS was how he even got there, what with the barrier and all. This is easily resolved if he never left the city in the first place. However, this doesn't explain how he knew about the Chancellor's predicament.

    The second is that Lechter left Crossbell sometime between the 24th and the 30th, before the civil war broke out, and didn't tell his fellow Ironbloods. Why would he do this? If he were, say, to be involved in the 'cleanup' after the Chancellor's address (and any preparation that took place beforehand), then the fewer people that knew of his whereabouts the better. This would also explain how he had such an accurate picture of what the end of the civil war would mean for Crossbell regardless of which side 'won' - Rufus's true allegiance and Osborne still being alive made the real result a foregone conclusion.

    This has ended up longer than I thought it would have done. Have I missed anything that settles the question one way or the other, or perhaps in a different direction entirely?
     

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