Ask Us About Kiseki

Discussion in 'The Legend of Heroes Series' started by omgfloofy, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. omgfloofy

    omgfloofy Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Hey! This idea came up in another thread. There are several Kiseki series experts on this forum and we're happy to answer questions of all sorts regarding the series. These can be questions regarding the system and story. Whatever you want.

    I know for a fact that you'll find myself, Overthebarrier, and Yotaka in here helping answer questions.

    A few reminders, if you're asking a story question that is in spoiler territory, please make sure you use Spoiler tags. We are happy to spoil things for you, but we may ask for clarification if it causes a chain reaction of spoilers from earlier games to explain.

    Nevertheless, let's get this thread started. I guess I can now say that we're open for business at this point. :D Bring on the questions.
     
  2. Seboist

    Seboist New Member

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    Do cast member(s) from the FC,SC and 3rd get notable roles in latter games or just cameos?
     
  3. Veleskola

    Veleskola New Member

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    Yes.

    Estelle, Joshua, Rene and Kurt (maybe Ries but can't remember) appear in Zero and Ao no kiseki. Not sure about the others but I know Estelle and Joshua do have a somewhat sizeable role even being party members. Of course who wants to play as those two when you get the man... the legend... Arios!

    Also (series spoilers)

    Prince Olivier appears in Sen no kiseki. You know... as the prince of Erebonia.
     
  4. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,474
    Also, Kloe, Julia, Olivier and Mueller all appear in Ao (and Kevin and Ries only appear hsre, not in Zero). No Kurt, I assume you meant Kevin. There are also a few important characters you haven't met yet in FC or whose importance isn't obvious.

    Oh, and of course there's Anton (and Ricks) with an awesome sidequest in Zero which he's still getting over when he appears in Sen.

    Of all of these, only Estelle and Joshua are (briefly) playable though Ries is a guest NPC in a hidden quest. Most of the returning characters do important things but the focus is definitely on the new casts.
     
  5. Veleskola

    Veleskola New Member

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    Yeah Kevin. Haven't played Ao yet so I was only going off what I'd seen in screenshots.
     
  6. ceruleanstars

    ceruleanstars New Member

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    ...It's not directly about the plot as such, but I'll give this one a shot. How many years do you generally have to spend studying Japanese before you can really start to understand what's being said in the games? There are plenty of other things I want to learn it for, like not having to wait for the localisations to play Ys games, since those aren't nearly as dialogue-heavy, but Kiseki is... something I hope to get to someday. Generally speaking, though, how much study does it take before you can play them without being completely lost?
     
  7. Veleskola

    Veleskola New Member

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    You'll need to be fluent. 100%. All joyou kanji down. How much time it takes for that is very dependent on how much you study. 3-4 years maybe?

    I'd like to know to know too how long it took you fluent guys.
     
  8. ceruleanstars

    ceruleanstars New Member

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    Well, I'm assuming also you can look up unknown kanji or vocabulary while you play, on things like WWWJDIC. I mean, I'm not fluent in Spanish by a long stretch, but I have managed to watch some anime subtitled in Spanish based on a combination of what I remembered from my high school classes and looking up words I didn't recognise.
     
  9. Veleskola

    Veleskola New Member

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    586
    Good luck looking up complex kanji. Even if you do it by radicals. Some of them are pretty hard. (at least for me)
     
  10. ceruleanstars

    ceruleanstars New Member

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    Location:
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    Well, I guess maybe I should clarify and ask how much study it takes to get from the point where you would have to look up the majority of kanji in the games to understand them (though I'm trying to learn new vocabulary together with kanji), to the point where there are still some that you don't understand, but you're familiar enough with the process of figuring out kanji by radicals and looking them up that you can deal with dialogue you don't completely understand, as long as you're okay with taking it very slowly.
     
  11. Veleskola

    Veleskola New Member

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    586
    I can't answer the other bit because I'm still doing it myself but I highly recommend learning kanji with words. Because I found that quite a few readings of kanji are differentiated by being part of actual words. You'll learn Kanji a lot easier with through words.
     
  12. Reta

    Reta New Member

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    35
    Since I've already been spoiled on a lot of things for SC, several of them pretty major, I decided to try to play it through now and at least understand most of it. I'll still be playing it when it's released in English though. There are a couple of scenes that I was wondering about, though.

    The scene with Loewe, Bleublanc and Kevin at the docks, the scene with Cassius at Leiston Fortress, and the scene with Amalthea near Leiston Fortress. I just want to make sure I didn't miss anything important.

    Also, what should I know about the Gospel, the Aureole and Ouroboros' intentions by this point?
     
  13. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,474
    Kiseki is really advanced stuff. I spent four years studying Japanese in college and lived in Tokyo for six months after that and by the end, I was just about getting comfortable with Kiseki... and still looking up a lot of characters but not so many that I couldn't get a good feel for what was being said if I skipped one or two I didn't know. I've been practicing on my own ever since.

    Dunno how much you picked up yourself but here's the gist of each:
    Bleublanc discusses the effectiveness of the Gospel he was testing and how its capabilities go far beyond the model Loewe provided to Richard several months ago. Their conversation implies that Ouroboros is performing experiments with some definite end in mind and they talk about how the recent result was a fragment of a 'miracle' and Bleublanc remarks that miracles belong to Eidos. He also name-drops Workshop Thirteen and reminds everyone that he has an obsession with Klose. Kevin's presence mostly serves to indicate that there's something more to him than his wandering priest persona, especially as he knows the terms Ouroboros and Legion. Loewe is mostly there to give Bleublanc someone he can talk to.

    Second scene, work is being done on the Arseille and while waiting, Cassius and Julia are having a friendly sparring match. We learn that the last time Cassius wore a uniform, he taught Julia a few things (not to the extent he taught Richard though) and he continues to comment on Julia's technique throughout the bout, complimenting her at the end. Cassius declines an offer to spar with Morgan and suggests it's time to let some new challengers have a chance at winning the annual tournament, like the last one. They both are pleased the Royal Army has promising young officers. We also learn that Cid has been given charge of Grancel's defenses and Morgan is getting less touchy about the whole Bracer deal. Kanone's appearance at the end is there to remind you that she escaped capture and has some sort of plan to free Richard from imprisonment. Also, she isn't operating entirely on her own.

    Oh, I see you added an additional question there. At this point you really don't know much about Aureole other than that Ouroboros wants it and that Weissmann tricked Richard into wanting it as well. You also have the obvious details you might remember from 'Professor Alba' and Richard, namely that it's one of Sept-Terion (ye olde seven sacred treasures) given to the ancient peoples of Zemuria by Goddess Eidos. You should be able to intuit that the four Towers are connected to the 'second seal' mentioned in the announcement at the end of SC. You already know Ouroboros is performing some kind of experiment on the Gospel devices and now you've seen three of the things (Richard's, Bleublanc's and Walter's). You don't yet know exactly how they work or why they're important but that will be explained in time. That about covers it.
     
  14. Reta

    Reta New Member

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    Thanks for the detailed explanation. I look forward to seeing your SC summary as well.
     
  15. Blackiris

    Blackiris New Member

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    I'm someone who has tried to play SC with a limited knowledge of the Japanese language, and I can assure you it doesn't work until you have a more advanced understanding of the game. I was really positive at first because I had surprisingly few difficulties with the first couple of minutes, but yeah, it soon got a lot harder. The biggest problem is that we can only concentrate for so long, and there are MANY dialogues in the game that easily take an hour or more to read if you need to look up lots of words. I have tried this, and I've played for ~20 hours, but again and again I've realized that I was rarely able to completely finish a long dialogue. Somewhere in chapter 2 I stopped because I knew I was missing a lot (the most important dialogues also happen to be the most difficult ones, unfortunately).

    Looking up kanji is a huge pain in the ass if you look them up by radicals. The only good way is using a smartphone (or an e-dictionary) and writing the kanji with a touch pen. HOWEVER there is an alternative. Playing the PC version! There are tools to hook up the text and provide mouse-over dictionaries. This is much better than playing the game on a PSP where you sometimes can't figure out complicated kanji because of the small screen resolution.

    Though I have tried this also, and again, it didn't really work out. Even though it was less time-consuming than looking up hundreds of words and kanji manually, it still was a lot of work, and enough to convince me that in my current state I'm unable to properly understand, let alone enjoy the games.

    tl;dr: Wait until you can read Japanese text fluently. And if you can't wait, play the PC version with agth, texthooker and ATLAS (dictionary only, no full text translations).
     
  16. miryoku

    miryoku New Member

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    7
    Does the battle system stay turn-based or it is changed later on the series?
     
  17. Veleskola

    Veleskola New Member

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    586
    Yeah the battle system remains the same through out the series. There are some additions in later games. Such as the party attacks in Zero and Ao. Not sure about Sen but I know it has that special attack thing linked to it's social link-like system. Zero also introduces the ability to actually stun enemies on the field (persona 3/4 style).
     
  18. Yotaka

    Yotaka Well-Known Member

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    2,474
    Yeah, the basics are unchanged but they add or remove elements with each new game. A quick summary:

    SC

    - Adds Chain Crafts (group attacks with 2 to 4 characters, CP cost goes up with each new character, functions like a normal Craft and you have to learn each 'level' to add more characters.to the chain)

    The 3rd

    - Adds Remote Ability (a bonus of some sort based on one character not in your active party) which is unique to this game

    - Adds a bunch of new turn bonuses that will make you curse Falcom's name.

    - Only game in the series so far to have (S-)Crafts with innate elements and the last game so far when you can even make your non-Arts attacks have an elemental affinity.

    Zero

    - Removes Chain Crafts and replaces them with Combo Crafts (uses two characters, takes 100 CP from each, extremely powerful)

    - Adds Support Crafts (special skills used randomly by characters in your reserve when you have more than four party members)

    - Adds the ability to attack enemies from the map to get starting bonuses or kill enemies significantly weaker than you are

    - Adds EXP bonus conditions

    - Introduces weapons with built-in ability to inflict status ailments

    Ao

    - Adds Master Quartz (which level up) and Master Arts (unlocked by maxing out M-Quartz)

    - Adds Burst (only in certain areas, once you fill the gauge you can trigger it and get several free turns with no AT delay from actions or casting Arts)

    Sen

    - Removes Master Arts and Combo Crafts

    - Adds attack types like Ys Seven/Celceta

    - Adds Tactical Link system (bonds between two characters, leveling them lets you do things like auto-protect/heal) including special skills Pursuit, Rush and Burst (different from Ao's system) which are triggered when you Break an enemy (by hitting it with an attack type it's weak to) and let you follow up with free single-targeting or AoE attacks

    - Adds ability to swap reserve characters in and out of battle.
     
  19. Veleskola

    Veleskola New Member

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    586
    Oh man didn't know that. Don't know about anyone else but I'm so glad that different attack types exist now. One problem I had with trails is that all weapons are kinda the same. They have different ranges and some can hit multiple enemies but they all do the same damage. Or at least what I've seen from FC, SC and Zero.

    Also I can't believe I forgot about the chain crafts. Damn it!

    Swapping characters out? (THANK YOU FALCOM!)
     
  20. VanKadix

    VanKadix New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Finally got around to setting up my forum account here after the XSEED forms were hacked. Well anyway, I do have questions about this series.

    ---Lets say I complete a no carry-over Nightmare playthrough of FC. How easy or difficult would I find SC's Normal mode? For that matter, If I was to use my clear data of my Nightmare playthrough, would it affect SC's difficulty level at start?

    ---How subversive will the later games get? I've heard about "Kiseki Paranoia" where people are questioning if random npc 49 is really a member Ouroboros or something like that; right now, the meaning of "Kiseki Paranoia" for me is the constant fear of missing out on a sidequest because I must have that accessory in SC that increases drop rate or a Carnelia book because I must have Estelle's ultimate weapon in order to have have a snowball's chance against Loe... Lorence's second fight on nightmare, but I digress.

    Will there be incidents in later games where choosing the morally questionable choice is what one needs to do to get the maximum amount BP, DP, or AP? How often in later games will you have incidents where some shady individual taking advantage of Bracer (or who the protagonist works for in Zero, Ao, and Sen) protocol for nefarious purposes? For instance, that rule where Bracers are not allowed to peak inside packages for delivery jobs, will there be instances of the player characters or other npc bracers delivering a package to characters they later find out to be shady individuals where the contents itself were illegal and or dangerous contraband? How bout sidequests that end in a "nice job breaking it hero" moment, but are required to do for 100% completion? I think I read that there will be moments like that on the required quests in later games.

    ---How high will the character death count get in later games? IIRC the only people who died in FC were shown in flashbacks. Will there be playable characters that are killed off for real? (Don't spoil who)

    ---(Joke question) Is there any reason why I subconsciously try compare these games to the Baldur's gate series? If anything, out of the Forgotten Realms games I played, the battle system most resembles Pool of Radiance. I'm probably the only one who does this, though. Of course, I know that the real-time with pause battle system was used in Legends of Heroes 3,4, and 5 for PC.

    ---(Semi-Joke question)Has anyone toyed with the idea of making some "abridged parody" of this series? Are there Japanese fans that have or at least did something similar?

    I guess that's all the questions I have for now.
     

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